HomebrewandBeer.com forum

So where does Coopers fit in on the big picture? Australia's beers seem to be clustered into several price bands: the cheapies in the $25-40 a slab/brick/carton/box bracket, mid-range in the $45-$50 bracket, and the premiums for anything up to $70-$80. I've always tended to overlook the Coopers brews - part of that has to do with being brought up a Victorian and having the usual Coopers chip on the shoulder - and really only began appreciating them in the last couple of years. Coopers' prices, to me, place the bulk of them at the lower end of the mid-range brew, but yes, the company produces a good, quality, and broad range of beers.
The thing is, though, that boutique beers open new markets, and at the moment they appear to be growing at a faster rate than traditional bulk sellers - your VBs, Carlton Draughts, your (gah, can I bring myself to say it) Tooheys New. and so on.
Flogging wine has worked out very badly for the big fellas, and the grape glut means no one's going to make any money off plonk for a good couple of years. The growth market, then, is beer.
Maybe Coopers' stranglehold on the SA market is not working in its favour in this instance?

I see i am at the receiving end of alot of heat from my short, brief statement, and i stand by it.

The problem with communities such as the brewing community and the alc. industry when it has a company with loyal followers is they somehow think that their loyal, patriotic stance for a good old friend of a company somehow makes good economic sense.

It doesn't. It never has.

Companies come and go, smart companies stay. Being loyal to a company and their product is one thing, somehow thinking that you can replicate some historic moment in history when one single man can defy an army is another.

Homebrew culture is one thing, but in the real alc. industry it's dog eat dog and you need to know when you are done.

Seeing as I asked for the opinions of others I suppose I should give mine

I have no doubt that Lion Nathan have the money to takeover Coopers

But they do have several problems
1. Coopers are not a publicly listed company
2. The good bulk of Coopers shares are in the hands of the Cooper family
3. No take over will take place without them selling their stake

Being a long time student of beer in the east I have noticed that Coopers products are appearing everywhere of late. I would think this increase in exposure & sales would see growth in sales never before seen in the company history. This would be one of the main reasons for Lion Nathan eying then off.

On the other hand Coopers themselves might choose to continue to grow the business & maximise it's capital value.

Whatever happens the Cooper family will decide their own destiny. My opinion is that bigger is not always better & that continuing the company on it's current course will out perform anything Lion Nathan could achieve

My 20c worth

Cheers

Wimmig wrote:I see i am at the receiving end of alot of heat from my short, brief statement, and i stand by it.

The problem with communities such as the brewing community and the alc. industry when it has a company with loyal followers is they somehow think that their loyal, patriotic stance for a good old friend of a company somehow makes good economic sense.

It doesn't. It never has.

Companies come and go, smart companies stay. Being loyal to a company and their product is one thing, somehow thinking that you can replicate some historic moment in history when one single man can defy an army is another.

Homebrew culture is one thing, but in the real alc. industry it's dog eat dog and you need to know when you are done.

CAMRA

Wimmig wrote:Doesn't bother me in the least. Bit more cash in my back pocket.

I think it's for the best.

Long live the lion!

Ho Hum, a statement from another financial genius in our midst!!

I wonder if we can blend it with some rice and use isohop to cut the costs and save the margins so we can take over more and more.

Gee, we could call it Buddy or something

I don't know what market share Coopers has but even if its only 2 percent they are doing well and making dollars. I see them as niche market that caters to a select group who want something other than generic swill. Its what they do, and do well. Let them do it.

Why would Lion want anything to do with it except for greed? He has a much bigger market share already. Its all about ripping the public as he cuts corners and leaves the prices where they are, selling crappy product under a once reputable name.

Bend over boys and take a bit more. A kiss would be nice once

Dogger

Dogger Dan wrote:I don't know what market share Coopers has but even if its only 2 percent they are doing well and making dollars.

In SA they have about 45% of the market share (i think), in the other states it is much smaller but steadily growing, especially in the eastern states where it has apparently become the current trendy beer to have.

Why would Lion want anything to do with it except for greed? He has a much bigger market share already. Its all about ripping the public as he cuts corners and leaves the prices where they are, selling crappy product under a once reputable name.

Bend over boys and take a bit more. A kiss would be nice once

Dogger

Its all about market share - Coopers is not only getting on top in SA, but it is now starting to take more of the market in NSW, and especially in Victoria which is heavily dominated by Fosters CUB - in that state the LN market share is probably being converted right into Coopers share, with Fosters not losing many points or any sleep over it. Coopers is becoming a threat to them, so the answer is to buy it so its market share becomes yours anyway.

Todays news, a lawyer who has decided he can cash in on the LN offer (and maybe even assist them) is sueing Coopers because he claims they underpaid him during a share buyback in 2003. Rather than asking for monetary compensation, he just wants his shares back. Typical money grubber who just realised he cashed out way too early.

http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/co ... 13,00.html

NTRabbit wrote:especially in Victoria which is heavily dominated by Fosters CUB - in that state the LN market share is probably being converted right into Coopers share, with Fosters not losing many points or any sleep over it.

True, and this is after LN went hard at Victoria about 3-4 years ago, buying dozens of pubs & putting their filthy beer in them, even buying naming rights for the Melbourne Cup...to no avail. From memory I think they picked up a couple of percent in market share, but didn't hold onto them. The average guy in the street here stuck to his VB or his can of bourbon & coke.
They have now sold most if not all of the pubs, & they do not sponsor any major events I am aware of.
Meanwhile Coopers has become ubiquitous- altough not every where stocks longnecks you can get Sparkling & Pale in pretty much any liquor store or bar in the inner city at least.
I remember a trip to Adelaide many years ago, being ecstatic at finding Coopers on tap for the first time...not the case now.

Dogger Dan wrote:We (Canadians) can only get our hands on Coopers, Black Rock and Morgans with the occasional Edme and John Bull so we are limited to poor over priced products.

I discovered Coopers products about 15 years ago and was pleasently suprised. It was hands above any of the other kits. This year I tried Morgans and Black Rock for the HBS and have not been pleased at all, very thin boddied, no real taste.

Remember, Dogger, that Lion Nathan owns Black Rock. See what we've got to look forward to

NTRabbit wrote:In SA they have about 45% of the market share (i think), in the other states it is much smaller but steadily growing, especially in the eastern states where it has apparently become the current trendy beer to have.

Actually, I think I read that it's about 20 per cent, with Lion Nathan at about 45 per cent currently with its main Southwark and West End brands. Cooper's market share Australia-wide is just under three per cent, but the company claims it's growing at 30 per cent a year in some non-South Australian markets. It's the third-largest brewer in Australia.

anti-fsck wrote:The growth market ... is beer. Maybe Coopers' stranglehold on the SA market is not working in its favour in this instance?

I'd agree with this.

Wimmig wrote:Companies come and go, smart companies stay.

I think the point is that Cooper's is actually smart, but its success, particularly of late and from such a small base, has meant Lion Nathan wants to own Cooper's because (a) It sees it as a threat to its revenue and markets; (b) it sees growth potential in the business; or/or (c) both.

Cheers,

Oliver

Todays news, a lawyer who has decided he can cash in on the LN offer (and maybe even assist them) is sueing Coopers because he claims they underpaid him during a share buyback in 2003. Rather than asking for monetary compensation, he just wants his shares back. Typical money grubber who just realised he cashed out way too early.

I've never owned shares so I might sound naive, but how can he claim he was ripped off in the buyback. Did Coopers force him to sell?

He's a friggin' lawyer, for God's sake. He's obviously not stupid.

Surely "buyer beware" applies equally to "seller beware".

He's only got himself to blame as far as I'm concerned. Money-hungry fool.

Depending on which reports you listen to, he's asking for compensation for the price differential between what he sold his shares for and what Lion Nathan is offering, or he's asking for his shares back.

It's interesting to note that just because Lion Nathan has offered $260 a share, that's not necessarily what they will change hands for. Under the company articles, an independent valuation can be called for and the value of shares based on that. They would then be sold at that price, not to the highest bidder. If it was deemed the shares were only worth, say, $50, this is all they could be sold for. I doubt too many of the 117 shareholders would be lining up to sell their shares at that price.

See http://theage.com.au/articles/2005/09/0 ... 67519.html
and
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common ... 64,00.html

Cheers,

Oliver

Thanks Oliver, let's hope he's only able to afford VB after losing.

Cheers

Scorpio

Oliver

I think what will happen is if the takeover goes through the main benficiaries of the deal will be the executives of Lion Nathan
(not the shareholders of that company).

It would be a real, real shame if it happens and the quality of Coopers beers declines due to cost cutting measures. As has been already mentioned, this exactly what has happened to many other Australian food producing companies in the past.

Everyone's opinion depends on the angle they are coming from.

For me I like tradition, but I know change is inevitable.

Personally I would like to become a part owner in Coopers and share the profits and have a say in it's future.
Can't do that at the moment.
The Coopers family want the support of the public but don't want the public to share in the spoils.

Who knows with Lion's markets Coopers products could be propelled into the stratosphere. As a shareholder in Coopers you may receive discounts as well as dividends and a say who knows. Change is not always a bad thing, whether it's will be good or bad change is all conjecture and speculation at this stage.

Just my personal opinion

yeah, you could be right there grabbie

I guess I'm too sceptical and pessimistic
but I think I'll have to start visiting more microbreweries to get that authentic special beer flavour and / or improve the quality of my homebrew

Wimmig wrote:

Companies come and go, smart companies stay. Being loyal to a company and their product is one thing, somehow thinking that you can replicate some historic moment in history when one single man can defy an army is another.

Coopers is a smart company. A small family owned company. A very sucsessful hard working company. That goes back generations to our pioneers, of our great country....and state of South Aus. Why change it now FFS !!

Wimmig if you were born and bred in my state, youd understand. I cant see your point of view, because it has no point !!!

Sorry that was me posting above. Didnt log in with my haste to post.

Grabbie wrote:Personally I would like to become a part owner in Coopers and share the profits and have a say in it's future.
Can't do that at the moment.
The Coopers family want the support of the public but don't want the public to share in the spoils.

thats a good point Grabbie. but unfortunatly most shareholders don't get a say in the co. runnings/product.
& sadly most ppl these days don't buy share's because of an intrest in the co. most buy for profits

In reply to a post above.

My point of view exists, because it is people like me who will end up with the final result of any company takeover.

The final seller.

...and we the punters will be in to tell the retailer how unhappy we are about it all.