Schofferhofer from K & K

[Bazman]

Hi everyone,

Have been enjoying the forum for months now, and as a novice brewer have learned heaps so far (and also expanded my horizons in the bottleshop). Having done only about 5 brews so far (including the lager included in the Coopers kit.)

While still using kits so far - with extras I've learned here (have used hop t-bags, LDME, liquid malt, Coopers Pale ale yeast starter from longneck etc.) - I have a possibly naive question:
Drinking a Schofferhofer Hefeweizen got me wondering, if its possible to at least come close-to, (ball-park) replicating something similar with such limited K&K skill?!?

Otherwise if anyone else has a good suggestion to fill my fermenter with this weekend, that's welcome too!

[drsmurto]

1 x Coopers wheat beer
1 x tin of coopers unhopped wheat extract.

A good wheat yeast is the key so you could use WB06 if your local HBS stocks it otherwise try Craftbrewer.

[Bazman]

Thanks mate. 'scuse my ignorance but WB06 is an ale yeast? Is it too cold right now if my fermenting spot is 14ish degrees?

Also are there any hops needed in this style?

[Zuma]

Thanks mate. 'scuse my ignorance but WB06 is an ale yeast? Is it too cold right now if my fermenting spot is 14ish degrees?

Also are there any hops needed in this style?

WB06 is a speciality wheat yeast http://www.annapolishomebrew.com/Prodsh ... rWB-06.pdf make up a good starter and pitch her on the warm side say 24oc or even a smidge higher put a heat belt on if your worried about the cooler temperature where you are.

As for hops a saaz t-bag would be fine.

[drsmurto]

No late hops needed in a wheat beer, all that aroma is coming from the yeast.

WB06 is an ale yeast as are all wheat yeasts. The craftbrewer version suggests 15-24C so if you pitch when the temp of the wort is 24C then you should be OK.

[matr]

When using WB-06 I've found if you ferment at higher temps 22 - 24 C you will get Banana notes. 18- 20C you will get Clove notes.

All the flavour / aroma will be derived from the yeast and how you treat it. (Well that's what I've experienced anyway)

[Bazman]

Thanks a lot guys. Your wisdom is always welcome.

One last question:
I really wanted to try crystal after reading about it on this sight, is that unnecessary in this case too?

P.S. Also realise I should have posted this in the recipes section. Oops....

[Moved by Oliver ]

[matr]

You can get crystal wheat so maybe give that a shot??

You may wanto to add some hops then to counteract the crystal addition.

[bullfrog]

Whilst I've only ever made two wheat beers, I don't think that a bit of crystal would hurt one too much. I don't think that you'd need to balance it out with hops, either, unless you were planning to use say over 250g, perhaps.

[matr]

I was thinking 250grms minimum. I wouldn't bother otherwise.

[drsmurto]

All the AG recipes i have seen (and admittedly I've only made 2 hefeweizens) are give or take 50/50 pils/wheat.

Single bittering addition, no flavour or aroma hops and a good wheat yeast.

Very VERY simple beers.

Adding crystal is unnecessary IMO.

Given that kits beers tend to be a tad sweeter than AG, adding crystal malt will only make them sweeter.

[bullfrog]

It will add body at a quantity of 250g and will still add some residual sweetness, I just wouldn't think you'd want to be adding too much extra malt characteristics to a brew that you really want the wheat malt profile and yeast esters to shine through on, is all.

EDIT: Directed at Matr's last post.

[matr]

That's why I said you can balance it with some additional hops..

However I don't stick to the guidelines as much as other do obviously. He said he really wanted to try using crystal so I suggested he give it a shot.

[warra48]

I've never brewed a K&K Hefeweizen, but I have brewed about 12 or so AG Hefeweizens and Dunkelweizens.

For Hefeweizens, my best grist has been 50/50 wheat and pils malts, with 100 grams of carahell. I couldn't differentiate it from Erdinger Hefeweizen.The carahell is just to give it a little body and to balance the clove I get from the yeast and cooler fermentation.

I don't bother messing about with decoctions, just a 60 min mash at 65ºC. Some rice hulls in the mash makes draining/lautering a breeze.

I think that any more cara/crystal type malts, even if balanced by some more IBUs, will take it out of style, and away from what Schöfferhofen is.
Hefeweizens should not have detectable hop influences.

DrS' suggestion as to the malt make up for K&K is a good one.
WB06 is a genuine wheat ale yeast, although I've never been able to get banana esters from it. It will make a tasty brew but, in my experience, more towards clove than banana esters.

These days, I use WY3068, and I like the results if I build up a 2.5 to 3 litre starter, pitch and ferment at 17.5ºC. It gives me the balance I'm looking for between body, clove, and subtle banana esters. I don't aerate the batch itself, but I pour off the starter wort and add 2 litres from the batch itself, and aerate that until it's at high kraeusen and pitch that.
For my next batches I'm thinking of experimenting with WY3868 to see if I can get some subtle bubblegum esters I don't get with WY3068.

Hefeweizens are not a difficult style to brew, but should be balanced between body and the clove, bubblegum and banana esters. if any of these dominate, it's not a good Hefeweizen.

[earle]

I used the following recipe modified from a full extract brew on another forum. It had the caramunich and hop additions (larger due to no kit bitterness) so thats why mine does. Turned out great with these additions so I see no need to change it for the next time I brew it. Brewed at 18C IIRC. You could sub crystal for the caramunich if you wanted and thats all you had.

Brewer: Earle
Style: Weizen/Weissbier
Steep Caramunich in 1L 70C water in thermos, Sparge with 2L 70C water
Hop Boil 420g wheat malt in 3L water

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.040 SG
Estimated Color: 9.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 22.4 IBU

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
1.70 kg Morgans Kit Golden Sheaf Wheat (8.0 EBC) Extract 50.75 %
1.50 kg Morgans MB Wheat Malt (3.0 EBC) Extract 44.78 %
0.15 kg Caramunich I (Weyermann) (90.0 EBC) Grain 4.48 %
10.00 gm Tettnang [4.00 %] (5 min) Hops 0.9 IBU
10.00 gm Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [6.30 %] Hops 1.4 IBU
1 Pkgs Weizen WB06 Yeast-Wheat

[drsmurto]

Warra - i used WY3638 in my last hefe and dunkelweizen.

The general consensus was that my dunkelweizen had green banana esters. It was tasted by the 7 of us who are doing the BJCP exam and we were tasting/studying commercial hefes and dunkelweizens at the time and mine stood up well.

So when i get back to brewing another dunkelweizen and some roggenbiers i will be using WY3638.