The great Hoegaarden clone - in progress

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Re: The great Hoegaarden clone - in progress

Postby emnpaul » Tuesday Oct 18, 2011 7:22 pm

G'day Flux.

I realise this is a bit of a late response. I left this hanging as I am yet to try the recipe and so cannot vouch for how close it comes to a Hoey.

This is the all grain recipe from a "classic" brewing publication. :wink:

2.5Kg Pilsener
2.25Kg flaked wheat
0.5kg flaked oats
0.115Kg Munich I
0.225Kg rice hulls (for filtering)
45g citrus zest (Most recipes specify Curacao orange. Stuffed if I know where to get them)
11g crushed corriander seed
1g dry chammomile flowers
Yeast WLP Belgian wit or Wyeast 3944 Belgian Witbier

Bitter to 20 IBU with some kind of noble hop. I.e. Hallertau, Tettnang, Saaz.
Aim for a pre-boil gravity of 1042 and a volume of 26.5 litres.
90 minute boil
Ferment 20-22*C

Good luck and let us know how it goes as I have a WLP400 vial in the fridge set aside for a crack at this recipe myself.
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Re: The great Hoegaarden clone - in progress

Postby Flux » Saturday Oct 22, 2011 2:11 pm

Thanks for the reply emnpaul much appreciated, I will give that recipe a run later down the track as I went with a variation of my own after extensive reading on different ones ,so I'll share this here too.
I also used the Hoegaarden water profile from Belgium.
Hopefully I get close with this one it is in the fermenter and see how it tastes in December. :-) What do you guys think of this one?

22Lt

1.85kg Belgium Pilsner
2.64kg Belgium Wheat Malt
.13kg Munich Malt
.13kg Flaked Wheat

15.24g Hallertauer Hersbrucker 60min
15.24g Hallertauer Hersbrucker 30min
15.24g Saaz 10min
23.27g Curacao orange Peel 15min
11.58g Coriander Seed 15min
11.58g Orange Peel (sweet) 5min
5.79g Coriander Seed 3min

Wyeast #3944

How does that sound?, the only thing I'm kinda worried about is if I've added to much orange but as it's near the end hopefully it works.

Pre Boil Vol 31.1 Lt Gravity 1.050
Boil 60mins
Primary Fermentation 19.4 C _ 14days
FG= 1.010 SG
Age for 30days @ 18.3 C
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Re: The great Hoegaarden clone - in progress

Postby AidanMatthews » Wednesday Nov 30, 2011 10:31 pm

Paradise seed is the one element constantly missed with clone recipes and curico orange peel.

So if anyone finds where to get both im all ears or eyes i guess since its a forum
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Re: The great Hoegaarden clone - in progress

Postby chadjaja » Thursday Dec 01, 2011 6:32 am

I use them in my saisons and get them from my local Indian and middle eastern grocers.
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Re: The great Hoegaarden clone - in progress

Postby Oliver » Thursday Dec 01, 2011 9:28 pm

AidanMatthews wrote:Paradise seed is the one element constantly missed with clone recipes and curico orange peel.

So if anyone finds where to get both im all ears or eyes i guess since its a forum

Hi AM,

It seems like Herbie's Spices has something called Grain of Paradise. Do you know if this is the same thing? It seems like it might be.

Interestingly, they do not have Curacao orange peel. I have emailed them to find out if it's available. I have read that it's not allowed to be imported into Australia.

The true Curacao orange peel is from Curacao oranges (no surprises there!), which grow in Curacao, formerly part of the Netherlands Antilles in the Caribbean. I was there in 2007, and saw the oranges first-hand. They are small, wrinkly, pathetic-looking things. Their history is described on Wikipedia thus:
Curaçao ... dried peel [is from] the laraha citrus fruit, grown on the island of Curaçao. A non-native plant similar to an orange, the laraha developed from the sweet Valencia orange transplanted by Spanish explorers. The nutrient-poor soil and arid climate of Curaçao proved unsuitable to Valencia cultivation, resulting in small bitter fruit on the trees. But the aromatic peel maintained much of the essence of the Valencia varietal, and the trees were eventually bred into the current laraha cultivar, whose fruits remain inedibly bitter.


and here:

Valencia orange trees transplanted on Curaçao from Spain in 1527 did not take the arid climate and soil of the Southern Caribbean island. As the trees were then abandoned, the fruit evolved from a bright orange color and sweet taste into a green and inedible bitter produce. The dried peels of the Laraha, however, were discovered to be quite pleasantly fragranced, and experimentation with the extracts of these peels led to the creation of Curaçao liqueur.


I will let you know what Herbie's says.

Cheers,

Oliver
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Re: The great Hoegaarden clone - in progress

Postby AidanMatthews » Thursday Dec 01, 2011 10:44 pm

http://store.homebrewheaven.com/brewers ... -p195.aspx

This link suggests they are same, im pretty sure you only use like 1g for a standard size brew.

I wonder if u picked valencia oranges early when still green if you would get close to the real thing.

I might try this as i dont have 100s of years to mutate a tree.

Sounds like the valencia tree mutated or adapted to that environment and hence unique, you can then understand why we wouldnt want any trace of it here as it could cross pollinate and ruin our awesome oranges.
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Re: The great Hoegaarden clone - in progress

Postby Oliver » Thursday Dec 08, 2011 5:06 pm

AidanMatthews wrote:I wonder if u picked valencia oranges early when still green if you would get close to the real thing.

Could do. Perhaps :-)

Herbie's (in fact Herbie himself if you believe the email sig) got back to me saying they don't carry them but suggested I try Essential Ingredient or Simon Johnson, which I will do.

And again, I'll let you know.

Cheers,

Oliver
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Re: The great Hoegaarden clone - in progress

Postby Oliver » Monday Dec 12, 2011 5:46 pm

Oliver wrote:Herbie's (in fact Herbie himself if you believe the email sig) got back to me saying they don't carry them but suggested I try Essential Ingredient or Simon Johnson, which I will do.

Not good news, I'm afraid. Neither of those places carries it either ...

If anyone finds out where to get it, please let us all in on the secret!

Cheers,

Oliver
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Re: The great Hoegaarden clone - in progress

Postby bilgerat » Thursday Dec 15, 2011 7:06 pm

I have just started drinking my hoegaaarden and its a great drop, I will be making more as soon as I get a couple more kegs, I used curacao orange peel which I got from my local HBS - TWOC in Bibra Lake in Perth phone Roy 0894188938 he does mail order, I pay about $5.50 for a packet.
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Re: The great Hoegaarden clone - in progress

Postby Flux » Sunday Dec 18, 2011 12:21 pm

Nice 1 I'm about to tap my keg that I brewed last month, when I return home just in time for Xmas so am really looking forward to tasting it in the next few days!!
I also had to mash for 90 mins not 60 as first planed as my extraction wasn't up to scratch and was a fair way off after 60mins.
I also get my curacao from Roy at TWOC he said to me last time that he was having trouble with customs importing it and that his import sizes had been scaled down for what ever reasons...... This is the only place in WA that you can get it actually from looking.

Paradise seed ok interesting? anymore info on this spice addition to the recipe?
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Re: The great Hoegaarden clone - in progress

Postby emnpaul » Sunday Dec 18, 2011 5:48 pm

I used a combo of orange, lemon and kaffir lime zest in my witbier. Haven't tasted the finished product but seemed a little ho-hum at bottling. Not bad per se, just not all that much like a Hoegaarden.

I did a bit of reading about Curacao oranges on the interweb and am wondering if a cumquat/orange combo might be closer to the mark? Little bit of grapefruit?

I haven't had any luck with the paradise seeds either. :(
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Re: The great Hoegaarden clone - in progress

Postby bilgerat » Friday Feb 03, 2012 8:58 pm

Did anyone get their curacao from TWOC in Bibra Lake as suggestedd above, i bought some more just recently so he still has it.
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Re: The great Hoegaarden clone - in progress

Postby bilgerat » Saturday Feb 04, 2012 11:03 am

Flux and emnpaul posted recipes for hogaarden AG back in October, can you blokes let us know how they went, Im thinking of giving a hoey AG a go myself
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Re: The great Hoegaarden clone - in progress

Postby emnpaul » Saturday Feb 04, 2012 8:31 pm

First things first. I found something called grains of paradise at a goumet supplier at Balmain in Sydney. I'm not sure if they are the same thing. Anyone?
Link: http://www.gourmetgroceronline.com.au/i ... uct_id=965

As for the Hogaarden clone, I tend to be a bit slack when it comes to follow up but here goes.

I was a bit sceptical at bottling and at the first taste still non-plused. It had a heap of corriander and background of lemon. Truth be told hard to finish one.

Tried again about 4 weeks post bottle and it was better, still a bit heavy in the corriander but it had faded to the point it was drinkable. To give credit Chadjaja was spot on when he said corrie was the first thing to fade and a good thing it was too.

At two months post bottle it was great! Balanced citrus flavour with malt and yeast in there too. Yummy! I wouldn't say that it was exactly like a Hogaarden and to be fair that could be a bit of a long shot. I remember reading on here (can't remember who posted it) and it stuck with me, that trying to clone a beer exactly is seting yourself up for dissapointment and you should be happy with a good example of a style of beer, or something like that anyway. Good advice to my mind and I'm reasonably happy with my first Belgian Wit.

However, there are two flaws that stad out. For some reason known not even to myself, I had my grain supplier switch 500g of German Pils malt for Aussie Pils malt to take advantage of it's potent diastatic power to convert the high amount of adjunct in the grain bill. This was a spur of the moment decision and unneccesary. The ratty, Thooey's New like flavour imparted by Aussie malt is noticeable in the finished beer and conflicts with the citrus. Luckily I only used 500g and whilst it is noticeable, it's not at the forefront. I will definitely be sticking to continental malts in future batches.

I'd also run the ferment up around 23*c in future to get the yeast to throw a bit more bannana. I was a bit restricted temp wise with this one as I did it side by side with a malt liquor using WLP 011 Euro Ale yeast and didn't want to go over 21*c.

I bottled a seccond batch on Thursday that was all Wayermann PIls and adjunct and ran at 23*c for first four days then rose 0.5*c per day for the next 6 days and it was spot on grain and yeast wise. Well, judging by the gravity sample anyway. The Kaffir lime might be abit over the top but I'll see what happens. I'll try to remember to keep you posted on that one when I start drinking it.
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Re: The great Hoegaarden clone - in progress

Postby BadSeed » Tuesday Mar 20, 2012 1:30 pm

Anyone know of anywhere that stocks dried orange peel?
I have emailed 3 places mentioned in this thread and had no respone :?:

Thanks
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Re: The great Hoegaarden clone - in progress

Postby hyjak » Tuesday Mar 20, 2012 1:58 pm

TRy and asian grocer BadSeed, if you really get stuck I can send you some as I work in an Asian Grocery store.
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Re: The great Hoegaarden clone - in progress

Postby BadSeed » Tuesday Mar 20, 2012 4:04 pm

hyjak wrote:TRy and asian grocer BadSeed, if you really get stuck I can send you some as I work in an Asian Grocery store.


Thanks :D , I can dry my own mandarin if things get that bad, but I was hoping for Seville or Curaco.
Do you stock those types?
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Re: The great Hoegaarden clone - in progress

Postby BadSeed » Wednesday Mar 21, 2012 3:17 pm

Update on the Bitter orange peel.
None in Australia at the moment.

Apparently the importation of the dried peel is tightly controlled and you need a special licence to import it. G&G have got access to a powdered version which they are trying at the moment. They have made a couple of brews and are awaiting the results before they start to sell.
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Re: The great Hoegaarden clone - in progress

Postby Flux » Tuesday Mar 27, 2012 9:36 pm

bilgerat wrote:Flux and emnpaul posted recipes for hogaarden AG back in October, can you blokes let us know how they went, Im thinking of giving a hoey AG a go myself

Sorry so late replying to this, but my AG didn't come out as well as I expected I stuffed it up!, the grain efficiency was really low, I extended the boil to 90 minutes.Things went a little wrong with my fly sparge, as I got a stuck sparge etc etc, and my sparge arm broke.Arggh Wort went everywhere, :roll: it didn't happen to well for me this attempt.
I mucked it up and the end result was a beer that was drinkable but it had grainy, metallic overtones that stole the taste of the beer, don't know why this happened?, I would only be guessing, as I'm just an amateur.

I'm going to brew another in the next few days I think, I am going to try emnpauls recipe, and mine again later without changing the water profiles......This time hopefully.
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Re: The great Hoegaarden clone - in progress

Postby emnpaul » Wednesday Mar 28, 2012 7:26 pm

My advice would be to go with German Pils malt or better still Belgian if you can get it. Avoid Aussie Pils malt, the flavour is out of place in this brew.

Hope it goes better this time around. :lol:
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