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rohanbutler wrote:Hey guys,

How does this look (straight out of beer smith),

21L
1.50 kg Pilsner Liquid Extract (6.9 EBC) Extract 32.97 % (in 12L boil)
1.50 kg Pilsner Liquid Extract (6.9 EBC) Extract 32.97 % (after boil)
1.30 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 28.57 % (In boil)
0.25 kg Caramunich Malt (110.3 EBC) Grain 5.49 % (in boil)
45.00 gm Fuggles [6.10 %] (60 min) Hops 39.1 IBU
20.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (20 min) Hops 4.8 IBU
15.00 gm Styrian Goldings [4.80 %] (20 min) Hops 3.5 IBU
15.00 gm Styrian Goldings [4.80 %] (Dry Hop 5 days) Hops -
Est Original Gravity: 1.045 SG Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.35 %
Bitterness: 47.3 IBU Est Color: 15.5 EBC

I have used the pilsner liquid extract, as it was the lightest liquid extract o beersmith, but I in reailty I would use prolly cooper Light liquid male extract. I was going to make it a 23L batch but cut it back to 21 in order to achieve a slightly higher OG. I was playing around with the ingredients in order to try and get that OG up and it didn't seem to matter what I did to the Marris Otter, it just wouldn't effect my OG, is this right?

Rohan, you must mash the Maris Otter malt to extract the fermentable sugars. You can get away with steeping the Caramunich grain but you must mash the Pale Malt grains in order to convert the starch in the grains to sugars. Also, I would recommend that any malt extract you use should be boiled to "key" the hops into the wort. That of course depends on the size of your boiler.

Cheers,
TL

Righto typo police.

Thanks TL. Plan was always to partial mash the Marris Otter (MO) with the caramunich. I think what I did wrong in beersmith was add the grain extract etc to the recipe before I added the mash down the bottom. I went back deleted the orignal MO and then reinstated it after setting a mash type and it seemed to work fine (OG changed when I change the amount of MO).

My brew pot is 15L and I usually work on about a 12L boil (which I have set in beersmith) I was working on half volume boil so boil about half the fermentables. I put all the fermentables in to the theortical boil in beersmith and it seems to come about better so I'll leave it at that, unless anybody else some other suggestions?

Might try G&G see if they can get the yeast in?

Thanks guys.

You wont be able to get the 1469 yeast as it was a VSS strain released a few years ago. I was lucky enough to score a small sample from a local brewer and built it up enough to have it in the yeast bank.

1469 is a good floccer and relatively fruity - if you want a yeast in the same ballpark i would suggest 1187. Just used that in a dark mild and its a stunner. Flocs like no-ones business leaving a nice clear beer and has a distinctive fruitiness. I used 1098 in my original attempt but i dont think it had the ester profile i was after.

I should clarify all this and say i have used only a very small number of liquid yeasts and am still learning what each adds to my beers.

Cheers and yummy pommy beers!
DrSmurto

First question where in Victoria would you source some of this for a taste test(admittedly I haven't looked hard at Dan Murphys)

Found some of this at Grain & Grape last week. Cloudwine also had a good range of english ales. Just watch the best before dates though.

Might have to duck into G&G at some point in the next few days so I will check it out then.

Thanks for the suggestion!

Rohan

First Choice in Toowong (Brisbane) just got some of this in so i picked one up the other day. Damn its good, Im keen to make some!

Dodgy phone pic of my Landlord. Low carbonation. Low pouring pressure. No wheat or carapils. Didnt use a special glass. Washed in a dishwasher. Bloody nice head.

And using polyclar its as clear as a commercial beer!

Looks good Doc.

You sure its not out of that bottle in the background though?

Made a London Pride clone attempt recently with LLME, CaraAroma and CaraAmber, Northdown, target and challenger hops. Had Landlord for the first time on Friday night and while as expected my LP clone was nothing like landlord there was a similar flavour somewhere in there. I'm planning on doing a extract version of your landlord but was wondering if I would put some CaraAmber or CaraAroma in as well. Perhaps some others have more experience with the ingredients from my brew and can help pinpoint what the similar flavour was. Maybe I'll just make it with LLME and caramunich, then try it with some other malt to see the difference. All in the name of science though.

Bottle in the background poured a much darker and very stale and oxidised beer.

As for the extract version, whilst i dont use crystal anymore i think you will need some to give you a malty/nutty character that comes from using Mo and Munich( unless you are game to try a partial....). I would normally suggest english crystal (medium) since this is an english beer but i used munich so maybe a cara-something might work.

The yeast plays a huge role in english beers so dont skimp on this. Windsor might work as a dry yeast altho i would be lashing out on a good liquid yeast.

a malty/nutty character that comes from using Mo and Munich

This could be the flavour that I couldn't quite put my finger on. Something in my LP clone had a similar flavour hence my thoughts on using cara-something.

I would suggest melanoidin, caramunich, and caraaroma. This should darken the colours and give you the malty flavours and aromas you want.

Melanoidin needs to be mashed doesn't it? I was thinking of using caramunich as a substitute for it or the munich that the Doc uses. I shouldn't have used CaraAroma and CaraAmber together for the first time I used either because now I don't know the flavour of them seperately. Will have to do them seperately so I know. Kev, on your suggestion I will use caraAroma when I do the TTL clone.

Wow, I did not realise it had to be mashed. Thanks for pointing that out. I don't do many steeps anymore

I thought caraaroma was the crystal version of melanoidin.

Could be. I'm still trying to figure out what can be substituted for what, especially since some types of malt are not available here in Oz. I thought Munich was relatively high in melanoidin compounds and so thought perhaps it could be subbed for melanoidin malt, and took it one step further by thinking I could use caramunich instead. Well that was my reasoning anyway, flawed as it may be.

Earle,

If you could post your planned recipe that would be great as I'm going to attempt an extract / mash version as well (see previous thread).

Thanks,

Rohan

Rohan

Its more of an idea than a recipe at the moment but I will try to knock together a recipe on the weekend and post it. Put together about 5 or 6 lager recipes last weekend as we're heading into cooler weather so probably won't get to brew this one for a while.

rwh wrote:I thought caraaroma was the crystal version of melanoidin.

Interesting - I've never heard of caraaroma described like that.....and I'm certainly not disputing your comment. I always thought Caraaroma was quite a bit darker than melanoidin - I'd check if I had some in the cellar - it's all gone at the moment!

Cheers,
TL

Yes TL, it is much darker, but I reckon if you used it in lower quantity would have some of the same final effect on the beer. I also had not heard of that description, but it is plausable.

OK here it is. Extract brew based on Doc's AG recipe. It will probably change several times before I get to brew it. All feedback appreciated. OG is a bit lower than Doc's so I've adjusted the bitterness down a bit as well to try to keep the balance right. Rohan you would need to alter the hop schedule to suit the AA% of the hops you have.

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Timothy Taylor Landlord
Brewer: Earle
Style: Special/Best/Premium Bitter
TYPE: Extract

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.038 SG
Estimated Color: 18.7 EBC
Estimated IBU: 32.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: - %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.00 kg Morgans UH Pale (7.9 EBC) Extract 90.91 %
0.20 kg Caramunich I (Weyermann) (90.0 EBC) Grain 6.06 %
0.10 kg Caraaroma (Weyermann) (390.0 EBC) Grain 3.03 %
30.00 gm Fuggles [4.50 %] (60 min) Hops 21.0 IBU
30.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.20 %] (20 min) Hops 11.9 IBU
30.00 gm Styrian Goldings [4.70 %] (0 min) Hops -
1 Pkgs Windsor Yeast (CraftBrewer #-) Yeast-Ale