First AG recipe help

[warra48]

How'd your bopils go over at the inlaws?

The BoPils went down OK, but I suspect it was probably too hoppy for them, it's 45 IBU of Saaz, so right at the limit for the style.
The Hefeweizen went down a treat. The father-in-law reckoned it was the best beer I'd ever made. I didn't think so, I've made better Hefeweizens, although it was a good one, just not my absolute best.

Boiling an AIPA as I type. The smell of Magnum and Cascade hops is very exciting. Hit 86% mash efficiency which, for a big beer, is pretty good.

[Trough Lolly]

It stayed within 2 deg of my strike temp for most of it though. WIll the temp moving for a few min affect my efficiency?

Warra, do you really think dead space would account for that much loss? I definatly have some but havn't measured it.

A couple of degrees is fine - I stir every 15 mins and if you think it's too low, add some near boiling water and stir it through to push the mashtemp up a bit.

Re deadspace, I factor in about 150ml of losses in Promash - in theory you can't get all the mash liquor out anyway since the grains soak up so much of it.

Cheers,
TL

[Finnagann]

Does anyone recirculate runnings? Is there a downside to it? I've heard that some recirc til it runs clear.

[Trough Lolly]

Yep, before I send the runnings to the kettle, I run about 5 litres into a bucket and gently return it to the mash. By then, I have nice clear particle free runnings and I can sparge the whole mash into the kettle in one go.

Cheers,
TL

[Finnagann]

Yep, before I send the runnings to the kettle, I run about 5 litres into a bucket and gently return it to the mash. By then, I have nice clear particle free runnings and I can sparge the whole mash into the kettle in one go.

Cheers,
TL

So to recap: mash as usual; add some sparge water (?), then draw off ~5L; add your runnings back; add the rest of your sparge water and drain the tun?

No stirring or "soaking" involved? Did I miss any steps?

[warra48]

Yep, before I send the runnings to the kettle, I run about 5 litres into a bucket and gently return it to the mash. By then, I have nice clear particle free runnings and I can sparge the whole mash into the kettle in one go.

Cheers,
TL

So to recap: mash as usual; add some sparge water (?), then draw off ~5L; add your runnings back; add the rest of your sparge water and drain the tun?

No stirring or "soaking" involved? Did I miss any steps?

Not quite. I batch sparge, and this is my process:
The first run off, I usually then give mine a good stir, then vorlauf, that is, drain off the first few litres and gently add back to the mash. You do this until you get it particle free, and it starts to look clearer. You'll never get it totally clear out of the mashtun, but it will be obvious once it's no longer murky, just gently cloudy. Then you're good to drain it all to the kettle.
Then add all your sparge water, give it a good stir, and repeat the vorlauf and draining process.

[Finnagann]

Yep, before I send the runnings to the kettle, I run about 5 litres into a bucket and gently return it to the mash. By then, I have nice clear particle free runnings and I can sparge the whole mash into the kettle in one go.

Cheers,
TL

So to recap: mash as usual; add some sparge water (?), then draw off ~5L; add your runnings back; add the rest of your sparge water and drain the tun?

No stirring or "soaking" involved? Did I miss any steps?

Not quite. I batch sparge, and this is my process:
The first run off, I usually then give mine a good stir, then vorlauf, that is, drain off the first few litres and gently add back to the mash. You do this until you get it particle free, and it starts to look clearer. You'll never get it totally clear out of the mashtun, but it will be obvious once it's no longer murky, just gently cloudy. Then you're good to drain it all to the kettle.
Then add all your sparge water, give it a good stir, and repeat the vorlauf and draining process.

Yar this looks much better than what I was doing By "first run off" do you mean the liquid in the mash before adding any sparge water?

[warra48]

Yar this looks much better than what I was doing By "first run off" do you mean the liquid in the mash before adding any sparge water?

Yes, that's correct.

At the end of my mash period, I stir my mash, recirculate a few litres until it runs clearer, then drain the whole mash tun into the kettle.
I measure the amount I've collected, compare it to my target pre-boil volume, and easily calculate how much sparge water I then need to add.
Once I add the sparge water, I stir the mash again, recirculate until it runs clearer, and totally drain it.

Now, this is batch sparging. It is different to fly sparging, where you drain slowly, and gently keep adding water to the mashtun as you drain it from the bottom, until you collect your target volume or the runoff SG drops to 1.010 or lower.

I really suggest batch sparging for your first few batches before you consider fly sparging. I still always batch sparge, and don't personally see any reason to change with my set-up. I regularly get over 90% mash efficiency, so it's not as if I need the extra SG points which fly sparging is alleged to provide.

[Finnagann]

Yar this looks much better than what I was doing By "first run off" do you mean the liquid in the mash before adding any sparge water?

Yes, that's correct.

At the end of my mash period, I stir my mash, recirculate a few litres until it runs clearer, then drain the whole mash tun into the kettle.
I measure the amount I've collected, compare it to my target pre-boil volume, and easily calculate how much sparge water I then need to add.
Once I add the sparge water, I stir the mash again, recirculate until it runs clearer, and totally drain it.

Now, this is batch sparging. It is different to fly sparging, where you drain slowly, and gently keep adding water to the mashtun as you drain it from the bottom, until you collect your target volume or the runoff SG drops to 1.010 or lower.

I really suggest batch sparging for your first few batches before you consider fly sparging. I still always batch sparge, and don't personally see any reason to change with my set-up. I regularly get over 90% mash efficiency, so it's not as if I need the extra SG points which fly sparging is alleged to provide.

That's great run through Warra, I'm especially pumped about my next batch now.

Have you ever used WY1275 Thames Valley ale? This batch has been in the primary for 10 days now and there's still some light foam on the top, I've been fermenting at 18-20C, and I've never seen one still working away for this long. I took a grav reading the day before yesterday and it was at 1.009 (1 point below what Beeralchemy predicted), OG was 1.038. I tried a bit from the hydro tube and it was like nothing I've tasted yet: quite bready with a slightly burnt flavour.

I'm not overly concerned but thought I'd check in anyways... does this all sound reasonable?

[warra48]

Yes, that all sounds reasonable to me.

What you are experiencing is what many English Ales do, they clump on top of your brew, and some of the clumps continue to float there.
It's nothing to be concerned about. It won't ruin your beer, and as you bottle they'll eventually settle with the rest of the trub in the bottom of your fermenter.

I haven't used WY1275 myself. However, the last Mild I brewed I used WY1968. It went from 1.038 to 1.010, so you've done well to get yours down to 1.009.

I'd leave it for a little longer. My experience with WY1968 is that it continues to slowly nibble away, and continues to clean up after itself.
However, if you're keen, I'd say you are at Final Gravity, so you could bottle if you wish to.

[Finnagann]

Yes, that all sounds reasonable to me.

What you are experiencing is what many English Ales do, they clump on top of your brew, and some of the clumps continue to float there.
It's nothing to be concerned about. It won't ruin your beer, and as you bottle they'll eventually settle with the rest of the trub in the bottom of your fermenter.

I haven't used WY1275 myself. However, the last Mild I brewed I used WY1968. It went from 1.038 to 1.010, so you've done well to get yours down to 1.009.

I'd leave it for a little longer. My experience with WY1968 is that it continues to slowly nibble away, and continues to clean up after itself.
However, if you're keen, I'd say you are at Final Gravity, so you could bottle if you wish to.

Intriguing, I was just taking a close look at it (I'm fermenting in a glass carboy) and you can see columns or slightly different coloured wort under each little clump of yeast... they must be creating somekind of a path as they float up on the CO2.

I am chomping at the bit to keep this one rolling but after all that work I will let it sit. Ya, a lot of the reading I've been doing lately says that the yeast will clean up after itself if left with the beer a little longer, and shouldn't cause any problems for a long time (ie , autolysis). I'll give it another week, perhaps two if I can stand it. It also still has a quite a bit of suspended yeast throughout, some clearing time will do it some good.

I was looking in beer alchemy at priming amounts and it says to use 1 volume; which it calculates to be ~15g total that is waaay less than I've been using... I've been going about 1 cup of dex which I think is around 180g!!!
Am I missing something? Or have I just been overcarbing?

[warra48]

One volume looks too low for me, even for an ENglish Ale.
I use about 1.5 volumes for my English Ales, and about 2.3 for my American Ales and Pilsners, and 3+ for Hefeweizens.

[Bum]

Or have I just been overcarbing?

Warra's advice seems sound to me (as per usual) but I'd like to ask one question in regard to the above quote - does it seem more carbed than you like?

Unless you're entering comps just do it towards your preference.

If you really want to be spot on for style Beersmith will give you carb volumes for style in every recipe you put into it.

[Finnagann]

Or have I just been overcarbing?

Warra's advice seems sound to me (as per usual) but I'd like to ask one question in regard to the above quote - does it seem more carbed than you like?

Unless you're entering comps just do it towards your preference.

If you really want to be spot on for style Beersmith will give you carb volumes for style in every recipe you put into it.

Good point Bum. I like a well carbed beer but I think I have been going overboard. There's an off flavour that I'm getting, especially in the first month after bottling, that I'm pretty sure has to do with carbing up. Not sure if its the kind of sugar (still using dex as I havn't got around to finding some caster) or just too much. I'll try 1.5 - 2 vol for this one and see where that gets me.

[Finnagann]

I used table sugar in my latest, a light slightly hoppy ale for my bland beer loving buddies who helped me move. It was delicious after two weeks with no funny carbing flavour, thank you Warra.

Also, I cracked one of my first AG batch last weekend and it was delicious!. I think the problem was a strong flavoured, to me very strong, yeast that took months to drop out after carbing. I won't be using this yeast (wy 1275) again until I can pull a keg system together and use finings, I'm just not that patient

[Bum]

You can most certainly use finings when bottling if that's the only thing putting you off doing so now. There will be enough yeast left to carb your beer. Good to hear of the good beers (with my ears, dears).

[Finnagann]

You can most certainly use finings when bottling if that's the only thing putting you off doing so now. There will be enough yeast left to carb your beer. Good to hear of the good beers (with my ears, dears).

Really? Intriguing.. you have tried it with good results? Any pointers?

[Bum]

I have used it with good results when bottling but I will leave the advice to others as, to be honest, cosmetic issues are not a huge concern for me so I don't do it often at all.

[Finnagann]

I've been thinking on this one and I wonder if you would end up further behind by using finings. Finings would be primarily taking out suspended yeast, would they not? The yeast that is needed to carb up your beer. So once it was removed (mostly) it would have to take time to repopulate and end up in suspension anyways.

Am I missing something?

The only way I see this working is if you used finings and then inoculated with a better flocking strain, like WY 1968.

[hirns]

I've been thinking on this one and I wonder if you would end up further behind by using finings. Finings would be primarily taking out suspended yeast, would they not? The yeast that is needed to carb up your beer. So once it was removed (mostly) it would have to take time to repopulate and end up in suspension anyways.

Am I missing something?

The only way I see this working is if you used finings and then inoculated with a better flocking strain, like WY 1968.

Finnagann, there will still be more than enough yeast to carb your bottles I can guarantee it. I disolve two teaspoons of gelatine in a cup of water and add it to the fermentor a day before bottling and stir it in gently with a sterilised spoon. Use the cooking gelatine from the supermarket, its the same as the finnings sachets that they sell at the homebrew stores or section of your supermarket. Leave it overnight and bottle the next day. Even with using a one micron filter there is still enough yeast that gets through to carb a beer.

Cheers

Hirns