Berri Apple Juice Cider

. . . and alcoholic or non-alcoholic beverages other than beer and spirits. Post discussion on recipes, methods, equipment and the like about these drinks here.

Re: Berri Apple Juice Cider

Postby Trizza » Wednesday Sep 01, 2010 8:42 am

hirns,

I actually reckon the clarity of your brew is a result of both the champagne yeast and the apple juice. I’ve used EC-1118 several times and it produces a very clear brew, but nothing to the levels that you’ve described! Has anyone tried the wyeast strains?

I’m actually interested into the Apple Pear Juice / Apple Juice factor. I’m aware that pear juice is added in most cider to sweeten it up a bit, but how much should a brewer add to ensure the balance between dryness and sweetness? I’ll let everyone know with my 76% Apple Pear juice / 24% Apple juice blend.

Mine’s been fermenting for a couple of days now – took a taste this morning and it’s got a long way to go but reminds me of Monteith’s crushed apple cider…
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Re: Berri Apple Juice Cider

Postby drsmurto » Wednesday Sep 01, 2010 12:21 pm

Pear juice is just as fermentable as apple juice.

Using a portion of pear juice in your cider will add a tartness associated with dry pear ciders (more correctly called perries).

Honey is a simple sugar, it is basically 100% fermentable. It's a mixture of fructose, glucose and water.

Candi sugar is sucrose that has been 'inverted' by heating in the presence of an acid* - this cleaves the sucrose molecule producing fructose and glucose. The colouring is a caramelisation process, don't let the colour fool you into thinking it's more or less fermentable.

What i do agree with is that Trizza has upped the OG significantly and is using an ale yeast rather than a wine or cider yeast. I would suspect the end result would be an FG higher than 1.000 so this will result in a residual sweetness due to the attenuation properties of the yeast, not the fermentability of any sugars added.

The end result will be the same but the reasoning is all arse about (scientifically speaking).

I'm not having a go at your Trizza, just explaining a few things. If someone repeats your recipe but doesn't make it to as high an OG they will get a dry cider and wonder what went wrong.

Cheers
DrSmurto

* The inversion of the sucrose molecule is a chemical reaction that requires a lot more acid and heat than is used by people on brewing forums who 'claim' they are making invert sugar. The sucrose molecule is cleaved producing one glucose and one fructose molecule. What they are making at home is partially inverted sugar as this reaction will not go to completion without the addition of a lot more acid than is being used. Commercially, invert sugar is produced with huge amounts of acid which is then neutralised with a base afterwards.
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Re: Berri Apple Juice Cider

Postby Trizza » Wednesday Sep 01, 2010 5:22 pm

I feel a little bit served, but I will concede that you're probably right. I think you've got just a little bit more experience... :P

I also looked at the bottles of the apple / apple pear cider and found out that the sugar content is 103g per L. That means in my 22.2L juice contribution there was nearly 2.3 Kg of sucrose, just from the Apple juice before adding any other fermentables!

I guess the advice to pass on is to have a high OG ~ >1065 and use an ale yeast to ensure that some residual sweetness remains to balance out the dryness. What are some of the common FG’s from using wyeast cider strain? Does it ferment like an ale yeast or more like a wine yeast?

Lactose may not be needed... We'll have to wait and see...
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Re: Berri Apple Juice Cider

Postby RUM57L » Thursday Sep 02, 2010 10:23 am

Every batch I do has a minimum of 6 weeks with the above schedule. Honey & candi sugar take a considerable amount of time to ferment out at 16 degrees.

I adopted the double racking because nearly all of the beer I make falls into the strong <9% category. When making higher gravity brews the trub increases in size. I kept finding that when it came to rack for the final time, (for bulk priming) the trub was considerable enough for me to consider racking twice throughout the brewing process.

The beer that I’ve made over the past 12 months using this process has been very clean and to a high standard that I thought would be unattainable through home brewing. As for losses, I generally loose less than 200ml in each rack, and that’s nothing to be concerned about in my opinion. It is a lot of effort however, but I figure it’s worth it when the beer comes out clean tasting with a lot less of the crap in the bottles that as home brewers we’re used to.


Thanks Trizza,

As mentioned I would like to try a cider and am keen to give your one a go in the near future.
I guess i might wait till i find some juice on special.. is there any particular juice that i should keep my eye out for? I want the 100% stuff right?
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Re: Berri Apple Juice Cider

Postby hirns » Thursday Sep 02, 2010 8:36 pm

Pictures of my Berri Juice Cider as promised.
Image
This was the bottom quarter of the bottle that the wife left in the fridge, hence the lack of carbonation in the pic. There was still a thin layer of yeast on the bottom of the bottle, but that is where it stayed.
Image

Image

No finings or filtering of any decription. Wish beer yeast was like this!

Cheers :D

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Re: Berri Apple Juice Cider

Postby Trizza » Friday Sep 03, 2010 8:35 am

RUM57L wrote:
Every batch I do has a minimum of 6 weeks with the above schedule. Honey & candi sugar take a considerable amount of time to ferment out at 16 degrees.

I adopted the double racking because nearly all of the beer I make falls into the strong <9% category. When making higher gravity brews the trub increases in size. I kept finding that when it came to rack for the final time, (for bulk priming) the trub was considerable enough for me to consider racking twice throughout the brewing process.

The beer that I’ve made over the past 12 months using this process has been very clean and to a high standard that I thought would be unattainable through home brewing. As for losses, I generally loose less than 200ml in each rack, and that’s nothing to be concerned about in my opinion. It is a lot of effort however, but I figure it’s worth it when the beer comes out clean tasting with a lot less of the crap in the bottles that as home brewers we’re used to.


Thanks Trizza,

As mentioned I would like to try a cider and am keen to give your one a go in the near future.
I guess i might wait till i find some juice on special.. is there any particular juice that i should keep my eye out for? I want the 100% stuff right?


I'm honestly not sure if you can use other brands other than Berri...I've just been hearing that it’s the best option following reading these forums.
I got my Berri juice on sale at $6.50 for 2 x 2.4L bottles - nearly every other brand was cheaper but some of the others do have preservatives which will f--- up your yeast. Does anyone recommend / not recommend any particular brands of apple juice for use in making cider?

It may take some advanced research to determine which brands / types are best for making cider. Of course we’d all be best of getting an apple press and doing it from scratch, but that’s beyond most of us…
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Re: Berri Apple Juice Cider

Postby RUM57L » Friday Sep 03, 2010 11:15 am

Cheers Trizza,

I might see if there's any orchards around my way also
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Re: Berri Apple Juice Cider

Postby drsmurto » Friday Sep 03, 2010 11:55 am

Berri is what i always use as i know its preservative free. As Trizza pointed out, currently its $6.50 for 2 x 2.4L at the moment at Coles.

Made up another batch of raspberry cyser last night using ~4L of the berri apple juice, 800g of honey and 700g of raspberries. Wyeast Sweet mead yeast.

Only used half the yeastcake so am very tempting to whack on another batch using blueberries instead.
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Re: Berri Apple Juice Cider

Postby Bum » Friday Sep 03, 2010 1:01 pm

I think most of the longlife apple juices these days are suitable for brewing. Just have a look at the ingredients and don't buy it if it says "preservative" in the ingredients.

I do know that Aldi juice is considered to be as good as Berri and the normal price would be much cheaper.
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Re: Berri Apple Juice Cider

Postby matr » Friday Sep 03, 2010 1:21 pm

You do get some strange looks when you are going through the checkout with 8 - 12 bottles of apple juice. It's just screaming OCD..
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Re: Berri Apple Juice Cider

Postby rotten » Friday Sep 03, 2010 11:20 pm

Probably wouldn't be so bad if you had other shopping. I just had beeri apple juice and got asked 'what do you need that much apple juice for?' You seem to sound like an alcho when you say 'I brew my own beer (& cider)'.
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Re: Berri Apple Juice Cider

Postby Bum » Friday Sep 03, 2010 11:23 pm

I'd ask them what they needed so many pimples for.
Last edited by Bum on Friday Sep 03, 2010 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Berri Apple Juice Cider

Postby rotten » Friday Sep 03, 2010 11:27 pm

I reckon they're just jealous :mrgreen:
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Re: Berri Apple Juice Cider

Postby Tipsy » Saturday Sep 04, 2010 12:38 am

Bum wrote:I'd ask them what they needed so many pimples for.


Or just tell them to mind their own f---ing business :)
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Re: Berri Apple Juice Cider

Postby rotten » Saturday Sep 04, 2010 12:49 am

Tipsy wrote:Or just tell them to mind their own f---ing business :)


I do miss that frankness that only living in Gippsland gives you. :P
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Re: Berri Apple Juice Cider

Postby Tipsy » Saturday Sep 04, 2010 1:01 am

rotten wrote:
Tipsy wrote:Or just tell them to mind their own f---ing business :)


I do miss that frankness that only living in Gippsland gives you. :P

Watch it Rotten or I'll throw an empty VB can at your head :wink:
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Re: Berri Apple Juice Cider

Postby rotten » Saturday Sep 04, 2010 1:25 am

As long as it's not a Carlton Cold mate, where wolud I be without either of those, and Jimmy of course!!
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Re: Berri Apple Juice Cider

Postby rotten » Saturday Sep 04, 2010 1:28 am

Sorry for poaching your thread Trizza :)
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Re: Berri Apple Juice Cider

Postby timmy » Saturday Sep 04, 2010 8:06 am

I've got a batch of cider on at the moment using 24L Coles-brand apple juice + Wyeast Cider strain. Initial tastings are indeed promising.

btw - Coles (at least in Vic) have Berri Apple Juice on special for $2 for 2L at the moment.

Disclaimer: I work for Coles so I'm not entirely unbiased....
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Re: Berri Apple Juice Cider

Postby Trizza » Sunday Sep 05, 2010 4:14 pm

rotten wrote:Sorry for poaching your thread Trizza :)


poach away fellas, poach away...

I wandered into the shed on a wet Melbourne Saturday morning to a very pungent, yeasty odor. Initially thinking that a bottle had burst, I turned my attention to the boxes of homebrew showing signs of wetness around the bottom. After a thorough check of each box my attention turned to the fermentation fridge, the apparent source of the moisture that now covered the concrete floor of the shed.

I opened the door to find 3L of cider remaining, after the tap had not been turned all the way back on my last tasting... :( Just finished making the batch again. When you fall down, you’ve just got to get right back up again :)

So. By all means fellas. Poach away... :P
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