All Juice Cider

[drsmurto]

Been doing a fair bit of research into cider making.

And not cider making that involves a can opener....... Most ppl here know my opinion of artificial sweeteners.

Real cider. Made from apples. Real apples.

Cider made using berri apple juice is ok but very one dimensional.

So i went out and bought 3kg each of fuji, sundowner and grannies. Put them thru my juicer and let the juice sit overnight with 2 campden tabs added to kill the wild yeast.

Will rack off the juice tonight leaving the top layer (the chapeau brun) behind and feed it to some Wyeast 4766 (cider yeast).

I juiced each variety of apple separately and tasted the juice. Very different flavours. The granny was quite tart, acidic. The sundowner was very sweet while the fuji was sweet but also slightly acidic. I am hoping the combination of apples will provide the cider with some depth giving me something akin to real cider.

I see it as a natural progression, similar to moving from K&K - extract - partials - AG.

Not sure where this fits in. Prob partial. AG would involve a press and relying on the residual yeast from the apples to do the fermentation. Thats the end goal for me but will take it one step at a time.

[Kevnlis]

I would be careful allowing commercial apples to spontaniously ferment your cider. A lot of orchards spray the fruit with bacteria which kill targeted species of insects. It is mostly not harmful to humans in the quantities found on the final product, but if it were allowed to grow exponentialy it could become very dangerous.

My OzTop batches of Just Juice (was on sale 3L for $3) have gone great! I have tried the blackcurrent which was very berry flavoured and quite nice, had a bit too much sulphur product from the yeast I used but that will hopefully subside with age. I also have an apple mango, and apple pear on the go. I am thinking about buying some raspberries or strawberries (whatever I can find fresh at the market) for the next batch which I will spike with a bit of honey. May even do a mead or malomel if I can find decent honey around here.

[drsmurto]

Knew i would forget some of the details!

Its was pre coffee....

i washed/scrubbed all the apples prior to use. Cut out any bad bits or obvious signs of damage.

Wild yeast is how real cider is made and i am not talking about strongbow or bulmers/magners. Its a risk, i admit, but one of will take once i am up to it. Until then, wash apples, kill wild yeast with Na2S2O5, use good yeast.

Made a raspberry cyser - think i even sent you a bottle?

Was honey, apple and pear juice and raspberries fermented with a champagne yeast. Still have 6 bottles, now >18 months old. Good stuff but potent.

[Kevnlis]

Yes Doc I have 1, maybe 2 bottles of it back home. I will get into it this fortnight. I didnt have a chance before I left with all the packing and moving, and wasn't sure they would appreciate me taking bottles of HB on the plane

[timmy]

I've been wanting to do an all-juice cider but I can't find any Wyeast 4766 locally. Any ideas where I can get some?

Cheers,

Tim

[drsmurto]

grain and grape will stock it. if not, they will order it in for you.

[corks]

A lot of orchards spray the fruit with bacteria which kill targeted species of insects. It is mostly not harmful to humans in the quantities found on the final product, but if it were allowed to grow exponentialy it could become very dangerous.

does this practice count as organic? if not then any easy way around it is to get organic fruit.

[Pom]

guys call me stupid or just a novice brewer.
I just put down my firstr cider on sunday, a BR cider kit with 7l of apple juice and 1l pear juice. with 250g lactose.
After reading your posts am I of the understanding that I can do away with the kit and use only fruit juice and add

some Wyeast 4766 (cider yeast).

and nothing else. This will taste OK. Also if I add fresh fruit to it do I have to kill wild yeast in all types of fruit or just apples.

[Kevnlis]

A lot of orchards spray the fruit with bacteria which kill targeted species of insects. It is mostly not harmful to humans in the quantities found on the final product, but if it were allowed to grow exponentialy it could become very dangerous.

does this practice count as organic? if not then any easy way around it is to get organic fruit.

No, in order to be organic they have to use twice as much

[drsmurto]

guys call me stupid or just a novice brewer.
I just put down my firstr cider on sunday, a BR cider kit with 7l of apple juice and 1l pear juice. with 250g lactose.
After reading your posts am I of the understanding that I can do away with the kit and use only fruit juice and add

some Wyeast 4766 (cider yeast).

and nothing else. This will taste OK. Also if I add fresh fruit to it do I have to kill wild yeast in all types of fruit or just apples.

You added lactose to a cider kit?

They are jam packed full of artificial sweeteners.....

As for your question, re-read the very first post.

Juiced apples, campden tablet(s) to kill wild yeast, pitch the 4766. Job done.

[Bizier]

Yo Doc,

May I ask what do you do with your cider yeast?

Do you breed it up (or dilute with water) and split it, re-use the trub, or just buy many packs?

[drsmurto]

First pack i just smacked and dumped into the juice.

After ferment was done and i racked the cider onto a keg i dumped 1.5L of cooled, boiled water onto the yeast cake and poured it into a 2L glass bottle. I then washed it several times with cooled boiled water over the course of 1-2 weeks till the water was pretty much colourless and very little cider smell was present. Spilt that into 7 x 50ml vials (each containing approx 25mL of yeast).

I then (talking 4-5 months later) pitched 2 of the vials into 5L of juice with a pinch of nutrient and away she went. After each ferment was done i simply racked off the cider and added more juice and nutrient. Am currently on the 6th generation and still going strong.

I have 2 vials left in the fridge and a massive 6th gen yeast cake when the current lot finishes.

All for the measly price of 1 smack pack (think it was $16) 12 months ago. Much cheaper now.

[Bizier]

Cheers mate. I believe I will follow suit harvesting the first generation for latter use.

[drsmurto]

Tasted a sample of this while checking the gravity last night, as you do.

Whilst its down to 1.003 and is relatively dry there is also a lot more fruit character to it than the cider i made from the long life juice. Hardly surprising.

Its cloudier than the last pint out of a CPA keg but since this is a test batch appearance is immaterial. Will be bottling this on the weekend.

[Rustyc30]

my folks live up at oakbank in the adelaide hills on what was part of the an old apple orchard and have 5-6 trees of 3 different types and always have a heap off apples so when the season is is comming to a end plan to pick a heap of them and do a big batch nothing better did it 2 years ago (last year the trees were cut back hard as they had to many branches break off with the weight so a small crop last time) and ended up with about 70l of fresh apple juice all put through a small home juicer not fun. Want to get a press this time to make life easier looking to get over 100l this time cant wait till there ready

[drsmurto]

Rusty, the Jovial Monk has an apple press you can hire. What variety apples are they?

Bottled this on the weekend. 6 longnecks. Smelt good.

Pruned my 3 apple trees - well, if using a chainsaw can be called pruning.

Grafted them with 10 new varieties, all french, all cider. Showing signs of growth after a week so my grafting technique is obviously ok. Wont be getting any apples for a few years at least but its a long term plan. Aim is to finally make a true Breton cider.

in the meantime, i am going to source cider apples in the Adelaide Hills. Got my feelers out.

[Pollux]

Pruned my 3 apple trees - well, if using a chainsaw can be called pruning

Thank you, now I need to clean up the coke I just spat on the laptop....

That reminded me of my old man, who has a catch phrase of "Don't force it, get the bigger hammer".........

[Bizier]

10 new varieties, all french, all cider

Can I hit you up in a few years for a couple of prunings? I only have eaters for trade though - have an interesting one from seed, good taste but it is a kinda starchy from memory, maybe mash it - and not with a masher?

[drsmurto]

Bizier, will check out the leftover budwood in the fridge at home tonight and get back to you. From memory i have 4 left of the 9. Can send them to you if you are ready to graft them ASAP.

It was 9 varieties in the end, not sure where i pulled the 10 from....

Cimetiere de Blangy
Michelin
de Boutteville
Clozette
Frequin Rouge
Blanchet
Antoinette
Belle Cauchoise
Chataignier

Pruned my 3 apple trees - well, if using a chainsaw can be called pruning

Thank you, now I need to clean up the coke I just spat on the laptop....

That reminded me of my old man, who has a catch phrase of "Don't force it, get the bigger hammer".........

yeah, sorry bout that mate. it did seem a little Tim 'the toolman' Taylor at the time (grunting obligatory).

Was needed tho cos the trees are >70 years old and were towering over the house. Now at a manageable height (<1m).

[Bizier]

trees are >70 years old and were towering over the house

They must be seedling stock - looks like you will get plenty of cider from that kind of stock - so long as you have a cherry picker

Can send them to you if you are ready to graft them ASAP.

I would most humbly appreciate anything, so long as you use the best specimens yourself. I am seriously happy to wait a season or two. Will PM.