Carbonation of Dr Smurto's Golden Ale

Methods, ingredients, advice and equipment specific to all-grain (mash), partial mash (mini mash) and "brew in a bag" (BIAB) brewing.

Carbonation of Dr Smurto's Golden Ale

Postby SimonG » Friday Jun 11, 2010 11:34 pm

Hi Guys,

I just wanted to say thanks for a great forum. I have been lurking for a few weeks and I think that I'm becoming addicted to beer forums and home brewing. I've learnt heaps from the information that has been so generously posted,thanks guys :D .

After only 4 kits and bits brews, you gave me the courage to try my first AG brew last friday night. I did a small volume 12.5L BIAB version of Dr Smurto's Golden Ale (it seamed like the thing to do, with so many of you guys trying it and rating it so highly...can't wait to blow the froth off a few). It was so easy, it all worked beautifully and I hit almost all the targets for SG, efficiency etc. given on the recipe and using Brew Mate (beginners luck??? :) :) :) ). I suppose the proof will be in the tasting.

After doing a bit more reading on English Best (Special) Bitters I've learnt that the style usually has fairly low carbonation levels. I plan to bottle in about a week, so could someone please give me some advice on how i should carbonate this batch (I usually use 2x carbonation drops in each 750ml bottle)? Will it make a lot of difference to the flavour, etc. if I use the usual 2x carbonation drops? Or should I just keep it simple and stick with my usual mehod?

Many thanks again

Simon
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Re: Carbonation of Dr Smurto's Golden Ale

Postby chadjaja » Saturday Jun 12, 2010 11:36 am

Great stuff! I just kegged a batch of this just half an hour ago and its a house beer. As far as carbonation your usual two drops will be fine, in fact the little extra gas helps lift the hop aroma even more imo. Once you get the gist of it AG brewing is both addictive and relatively easy. Best step I ever made.
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Re: Carbonation of Dr Smurto's Golden Ale

Postby SimonG » Saturday Jun 12, 2010 2:40 pm

Thanks for that Chadjaja, I'll do that.

I like hoppy beers, so I'm sure a little extra hoppiness will improve the flavour.

I'm hoping that doing AG will give me a much better result and spur me on to more AG brewing. 3 of my previous 4 kits and bits brews (spread over 2 years) have been a little disappointing, they have been drinkable but I'm really not a fan of kit twang. My last brew using a tin of CPA, LDME, cascade and citra hops turned out fantastic IMO, a lot like Fat Yak but without the kit twang. I'm hoping that the AG Dr Smurto's GA will be even better.

Cheers
Simon
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Re: Carbonation of Dr Smurto's Golden Ale

Postby chadjaja » Saturday Jun 12, 2010 8:53 pm

What you notice more is that fresh beer is best with AG and APA's. Whilst my kit and kilo days with a coopers green tin needed 8 weeks min in the bottle till it was decent.

Better yet you can really dial beers into your own personal taste by varying mash temps, ferm temps, grain and hop amounts etc. More control not only gives you better beer but a beer better suited to your own personal tastes. Most of my house beers have been a work in progress with just subtle changes until I think its what I had in mind. And KEEP notes! Best to make the perfect beer and know exactly how and what you put in it. :wink:
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Re: Carbonation of Dr Smurto's Golden Ale

Postby SimonG » Sunday Jun 13, 2010 9:34 am

I guess thats part of my growing obsession, so much to learn, so many different beers to try, so many variables to play with, so little time... and so much fun.

The only down side is that as I become better educated on quality beers i'm having increasing difficulty drinking megaswill eg. We went to a friends place the other week and the wife said "I know you like good beer so I got my husband to buy some Pure Blonde" :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Carbonation of Dr Smurto's Golden Ale

Postby bullfrog » Monday Jun 14, 2010 3:54 pm

SimonG wrote:...eg. We went to a friends place the other week and the wife said "I know you like good beer so I got my husband to buy some Pure Blonde" :lol: :lol: :lol:

Yup, my brother thought he was doing me a favour bringing a case of Crownies to my place...I put them back in his car the next morning, before he left.

I think the only problem with getting more acquainted with beer is that it costs more when we need to go commercial. I got a case of Sierra Nevada Pale Ale over Christmas -- cost me $120!
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Re: Carbonation of Dr Smurto's Golden Ale

Postby SimonG » Monday Jun 14, 2010 9:43 pm

Yep $120 is pretty steep, but I think $50 for case of tasteless crap like Crownies is pretty exy, especially seeing that it is 100% the same as Fosters (I've got a mate who is a brewer at CUB and says Crowies are just Fosters in a prettier bottle). Fosters is quite a few bucks cheaper, so if you wanted to drink tasteless crap why would you buy Crownies? Just another reason to home brew.

I have just made 12L of my first AG brew (Dr Smurto's Golden Ale) using BIAB in a 19L pot for $19.50 (plus $20 for the pot and $5 for the Swiss voile, which are reusable. I already had the other equipment). Around $30 less than the cost of a case of Crownies. I haven't tasted it yet, and it might not taste as good as if an expert made the same brew, but I'm sure it will taste a truckload better than a Crownie.

Thanks again to everyone on this great site for sharing the expertise to help guys like me to attempt these brews.

What is Sierra Nevada like? I've never tried it.
I love APAs, so was thinking I might give Trough Lolly's Sierra Nevada Pale Ale a go as my next batch.
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Re: Carbonation of Dr Smurto's Golden Ale

Postby drsmurto » Tuesday Jun 15, 2010 12:18 pm

I personally carbonate this beer a little lower than normal but since i dont use carb drops i cant day how much you would need.

I use the calculator in beersmith to work out volumes of CO2 when either bottle conditioning (i bulk prime) or kegging and force carbing. I aim for ~2 volumes of CO2 in this beer.

As for the whole drink them fresh theory, i condition all my beers, hoppy or not. So my golden ale gets 2 week primary then 2 weeks cold conditioning before being kegged. That's just my personal preference. I don't dry hop this beer anymore either as i prefer a good flameout addition to dry hopping. The aroma is less harsh/grassy.

Good beer is expensive in Australia, i just ordered 20 bottles (old ales and barleywines) from the International Beer shop for $155 and my last carton of craft beer was $80 (Steam Exchange).
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Re: Carbonation of Dr Smurto's Golden Ale

Postby SimonG » Tuesday Jun 15, 2010 10:39 pm

Thanks for the advice Doc,

I guess I better go with the advice that comes straight from the horses mouth to get the most authentic version (thanks also to Chadjada, your help is appreciated).

I have never bulk primed before. Could you please advise me how best to go about it? Carbonation drops are just glucose, so should I just add glucose (I can use Brew Mate to calculate how much to use in my 12L batch) to the fermenter prior to bottling? Do I need to dissolve it in some hot water? If so, how much hot water? or will it just dissolve in the fermenter?

drsmurto wrote:As for the whole drink them fresh theory, i condition all my beers, hoppy or not. So my golden ale gets 2 week primary then 2 weeks cold conditioning before being kegged.


I only have one fermenter so I can't rack my brews and I don't have room in a fridge to cold condition. Would you recommend that I leave it in the fermenter for a total of 4 weeks (2 weeks inside at 18C and 2 weeks under the house at approx 10-12C (Melbourne winter))?

Cheers Simon
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Re: Carbonation of Dr Smurto's Golden Ale

Postby drsmurto » Wednesday Jun 16, 2010 12:06 pm

2 weeks in primary is fine, just let is sit in the bottle for 4 weeks before drinking (if you have the will power) :lol:

Bulk priming - Link

Bulk priming calculator - Link

Back in my kit days i used to brew 23L batches and used 180g of dextrose to bulk prime. Assuming a temp of 20C that was beer with 2.8 volumes of CO2 which is too much for my taste these days for ales. Lagers fine.

So my suggestion would be to reduce that to 2.2 volumes. Adjust for the temperature (there is some debate as to whether this should be the temperature of the beer at bottling or the highest temperature it reached during the fermenting process - i use the latter which is normally 20C or thereabouts).

You can use glucose if you have that, i have always used dextrose.

Cheers
DrSmurto

p.s. i just realised that if you only have 1 fermenter then bulk priming becomes problematic. You could dissolve the sugar up in some water and add that to your fermenter but you will stir up the yeast which is not what you want. So i would go back on what i said and suggest you take Chadjaja's advice and prime as you normally do)
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Re: Carbonation of Dr Smurto's Golden Ale

Postby James L » Wednesday Jun 16, 2010 7:57 pm

2g of sugar (sucrose) will add 1g per L of CO2 to your beer.

the rest is turned into alcohol by the yeast in the bottle/keg

therefore if you want 4g/L CO2 (or 2 volumes) then add 160g of sucrose for 20L of beer.

If you want 5g/L CO2 (or 2.5 volumes) add 200g of sucrose for 20L of beer

EASY.

2.2 volumes (4.4g/L CO2) add 176g sucrose...

Remember when adding dextrose. its only 80% fermentable, so compensate.

Cheers

James
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Re: Carbonation of Dr Smurto's Golden Ale

Postby billybushcook » Thursday Jun 17, 2010 2:34 pm

I'm drinking a batch of Doc's Golden Ale at the moment (about 6 bottles left) & can vouch for it being a very nice beer.
I carbed mine as usual, straight in the bottle, same dose after 2 weeks in primary, racked & another week in cold condition. It is drinking superbly.

Cheers, Mick.
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Re: Carbonation of Dr Smurto's Golden Ale

Postby earle » Thursday Jun 17, 2010 5:27 pm

I recently read Tasting Beer by Randy Mosher and he recommends a pouring technique which will knock excess CO2 out when you pour. SimonG you could prime normally and then pour this way if you want to lower the carbonation slightly. His technique was to not tilt the glass at all but to pour normally (not slowly) into the bottom of the glass. Of course a large head will form, wait until this subsides and continue pouring. Repeat this until you have poured the full beer. He claims this will build a better head. He notes that in some places (Belgium) I think they prefer this method and are suspicious when you order a beer and it is served too quickly.

The downside of this method for bottle conditioned beer is that pouring in several stages will stir the yeast and make it harder to keep it out of the glass if that is your aim.
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Re: Carbonation of Dr Smurto's Golden Ale

Postby SimonG » Thursday Jun 17, 2010 10:40 pm

Thanks for all the great advice guys... wow there is science and an art to brewing.... so much more to learn.

Maybe I'll just do the carbinaton drops this time and buy a new fermenter so I can rack and bulk prime my next batch.
The real test will be whether I have the self control to wait for 4 weeks of bottle conditioning before I crack open my first bottle, maybe have to try just 1 or 2 before then. :D :D

earle wrote:I recently read Tasting Beer by Randy Mosher and he recommends a pouring technique which will knock excess CO2 out when you pour. SimonG you could prime normally and then pour this way if you want to lower the carbonation slightly. His technique was to not tilt the glass at all but to pour normally (not slowly) into the bottom of the glass. Of course a large head will form, wait until this subsides and continue pouring. Repeat this until you have poured the full beer. He claims this will build a better head. He notes that in some places (Belgium) I think they prefer this method and are suspicious when you order a beer and it is served too quickly.

This sounds like what they do at a place that I've been to in Melbourne called "The Belgian Beer Cafe". They serve Belgian beers such as Stella Artois, Hoegaarden, Leffe, etc They have a special pouring routine (I think its different for each beer), where they pour to a specific level on the glass then use a spatula to level the head with the top of the glass. I just thought that it was a wanky way that they could charge extra for a beer, but from your explanation there might be some science that changes the quality of the beer.

Cheers Simon
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