Setting Up for All Grain

Methods, ingredients, advice and equipment specific to all-grain (mash), partial mash (mini mash) and "brew in a bag" (BIAB) brewing.

Setting Up for All Grain

Postby bilgerat » Thursday Jan 12, 2012 6:48 pm

I am just about ready to put all the bits together for my first all grain brew.

I am using three 50 litre kegs that I have procured and cut the tops off, one keg will sit on top of my frame work as an urn for mash/sparge water, I have fitted a temp controlled electric element to this, I also have a copper coil inside this keg for circulating mash water back through the urn to maintain the mash water temperature, another keg will be the mash tun which I will insulate, and this will gravitate down to the third keg which will be gas fired for boiling the wort in.

My wort cooler is a 10m coil of 1/2" copper tube which I will sit in a tub of iced water.

The way I have set it up calls for a hot water pump to circulate mash water back through the coil in the urn and for pumping the wort through the wort chiller, can any one recommend a pump to handle pumping hot water, my LHBS has them but at $360 its a bit steep, he has elcheapo chinese versions for half that price, suggestions welcome I will post photos when its all together.
User avatar
bilgerat
 
Posts: 105
Joined: Tuesday May 24, 2011 6:58 pm
Location: Perth Western Australia

Re: Setting Up for All Grain

Postby Bum » Thursday Jan 12, 2012 6:56 pm

I can't help you with a pump recommendation but it seems to me that with the insulation/lagging on your tun this recirculating system may not even be required. I'd honestly recommend that you do a run without it to see how the temps hold.

Sounds like a sweet rig you're putting together. Throw up some pics when you're done.
Bum
 
Posts: 1154
Joined: Wednesday Feb 11, 2009 7:55 pm

Setting Up for All Grain

Postby bullfrog » Friday Jan 13, 2012 5:40 pm

I agree with bum that you can probably get away with not shelling put for a pump if you have sufficient lagging.

You'll lose quite a bit of heat if you have a lot of headspace in your mash tun, however, and considering you're using a 50L urn for mashing, I'm going to guess that you will. I have never tried it but have heard many good reports of people using a piece of styrofoam in the headspace of their mash tun as part of their lagging. I'd imagine anything that is watertight and denser than air would do the same job.

Just something to think about that could potentially save you dropping a few hundred on a pump.
bullfrog
 
Posts: 922
Joined: Tuesday Nov 17, 2009 5:26 pm
Location: The Hawkesbury, NSW

Re: Setting Up for All Grain

Postby bilgerat » Friday Jan 13, 2012 7:29 pm

Thanks for the replies.
My mash tun is a cut down 50litre keg so hopefully head space wont be too much of a problem.
The way I have set things up I will probably need a pump to get the wort through my chiller, I dont know how it will go gravitating, I will try a brew without a pump first??
User avatar
bilgerat
 
Posts: 105
Joined: Tuesday May 24, 2011 6:58 pm
Location: Perth Western Australia

Re: Setting Up for All Grain

Postby Bum » Friday Jan 13, 2012 7:35 pm

Have you considered using your chiller coil as a normal immersion chiller and just running water through it to cool the wort instead of running the wort through the coil?

You could easily have a valid reason for doing it the way you want, just seeing if you can save a few bucks somewhere.
Bum
 
Posts: 1154
Joined: Wednesday Feb 11, 2009 7:55 pm

Setting Up for All Grain

Postby bullfrog » Friday Jan 13, 2012 8:17 pm

I'm assuming your chiller has both the inlet and outlet on the same end of the coil? If you can change that configuration so that your out post is at the opposite end of the coil from the in, then all you'd need would be hosing that has a greater diameter inner than the outer diameter of the copper to make a sleeve. Run tap water through the hose in the opposite direction to the beer draining via gravity through the copper. Then just run the putcoming water into a rain tank or your garden.

Thinking about it, this could be a bit of a pain in the proverbial because you'd probably need a variable valve (like a ball valve) at the end of the copper to restrict the flow of the beer, otherwise you'd risk not cooling it down enough and having a piece of ghetto gear that doesn't do it's intended job.

This would all be in case you can't turn it into an immersion chiller, of course.
bullfrog
 
Posts: 922
Joined: Tuesday Nov 17, 2009 5:26 pm
Location: The Hawkesbury, NSW

Re: Setting Up for All Grain

Postby bilgerat » Friday Jan 13, 2012 10:41 pm

You blokes have given me food for thought, I hadnt thought of using the coil as an immersion cooler, Im not sure how the heat transfer will go so I guess some experimenting with hot water might be the go before using hot wort.
The big question is once its all together what will I brew in my first attempt, any suggestions on a gentle intro to AG, I am a virgin here!!
Thanks
bilgerat
User avatar
bilgerat
 
Posts: 105
Joined: Tuesday May 24, 2011 6:58 pm
Location: Perth Western Australia

Re: Setting Up for All Grain

Postby warra48 » Saturday Jan 14, 2012 6:26 am

bilgerat wrote:The big question is, once it''s all together, what will I brew in my first attempt? Any suggestions on a gentle intro to AG are welcome, I am a virgin here!! Thanks, bilgerat


You can do a lot worse than to brew DrSmurto's famous Golden Ale.
Easy recipe, and it is a fantastic beer.
If you don't like Amarillo hops, substitute Cascade, like I do.

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/i ... recipe=502
User avatar
warra48
 
Posts: 2081
Joined: Wednesday Apr 04, 2007 12:45 pm
Location: Corlette NSW

Re: Setting Up for All Grain

Postby Oliver » Monday Jan 16, 2012 3:39 pm

warra48 wrote:
bilgerat wrote:The big question is, once it''s all together, what will I brew in my first attempt? Any suggestions on a gentle intro to AG are welcome, I am a virgin here!! Thanks, bilgerat


You can do a lot worse than to brew DrSmurto's famous Golden Ale.
Easy recipe, and it is a fantastic beer.
If you don't like Amarillo hops, substitute Cascade, like I do.

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/i ... recipe=502

You can read about my first AG recipes here and the aftermath here.

I'm happy to have chosen the two recipes I did for my first AG brews. The advantage of Doc's Light Amber Ale is that there's a relatively small quantity of grain to deal with and the Moby Wheat is good because it's dead simple, with only one hop addition.

The less you have to fuss and think too hard for the first few beers, the better I reckon.

Cheers,

Oliver
Oliver
Administrator
 
Posts: 3422
Joined: Thursday Jul 22, 2004 1:22 am
Location: West Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Re: Setting Up for All Grain

Postby bilgerat » Saturday Jan 21, 2012 7:43 pm

Im still ginning around getting set up for AG.
Has anyone set up a Keg King SF 800 temperature controller for running a heating element for a hot water tank or HLT or whatever there called, I thought I was buying some thing that could just plug in, set the temperature, and away we go, but I have spent a frustrating day checking and rechecking my wiring against the diagram supplied and I cant get the phuking thing to work, at the moment I have got the sensor telling me the water temp ok and the heater element is working and heating the water but it isnt cutting out at the set temperature, when I first set it up this morning I wasnt getting any power to the heater element, it looks as though you can either set it up for cooling control or for heating control he diagram I have has the probe connected across terminal 8 and 9 my unit doesnt have a terminal 8 so have it across 9 and 10.
Any assistance greatfully accepted
User avatar
bilgerat
 
Posts: 105
Joined: Tuesday May 24, 2011 6:58 pm
Location: Perth Western Australia

Re: Setting Up for All Grain

Postby emnpaul » Saturday Jan 21, 2012 7:51 pm

I'm an electrician and might be able to help but it would be much easier to help you out with a picture of the unit's terminal block and a picture of the wiring diagram if that's possible.

Edit: I should add that alot of these electronic gizmos come with a generic set of instructions that cover multiple models and you need to make sure you're reading the right page. Appologies if I'm stating the bleedingly effen obvious.
2000 light beers from home.
User avatar
emnpaul
 
Posts: 666
Joined: Friday Apr 02, 2010 8:25 pm
Location: The Craft Beer Wilderness

Re: Setting Up for All Grain

Postby Bum » Saturday Jan 21, 2012 8:00 pm

Saw this recently in regards to pumps: http://www.gryphonbrewing.com.au/store/ ... 58a48d846b
Bum
 
Posts: 1154
Joined: Wednesday Feb 11, 2009 7:55 pm

Re: Setting Up for All Grain

Postby hyjak » Saturday Jan 21, 2012 10:20 pm

Awesome find Bum, looks the goods.
hyjak
 
Posts: 147
Joined: Tuesday May 12, 2009 5:45 pm
Location: Hobart, Tas

Re: Setting Up for All Grain

Postby bilgerat » Saturday Jan 21, 2012 11:08 pm

Thanks for your assistance

Here are a couple of diagrams that may give you an idea of what Im talking about, I hope Ive uploaded them correctly?

Image

Image
User avatar
bilgerat
 
Posts: 105
Joined: Tuesday May 24, 2011 6:58 pm
Location: Perth Western Australia

Re: Setting Up for All Grain

Postby bilgerat » Saturday Jan 21, 2012 11:16 pm

The Brown pump at gryphon looks good I might use something like that to circulate cold water through the wort chiller ??
User avatar
bilgerat
 
Posts: 105
Joined: Tuesday May 24, 2011 6:58 pm
Location: Perth Western Australia

Re: Setting Up for All Grain

Postby emnpaul » Sunday Jan 22, 2012 9:52 am

Thanks for the pics. They help alot.

I would go with the instructions printed on the unit rather than the paper ones.

The temperature probe is not polarity conscious, as stated in the instructions and as long as you have one leg in terminal 9 and the other in terminal 10 you'll be right. I'm confident this is not your problem.

The way in which your heater is currently connected will not allow the SF 800 to switch it on and off, hence the reason it is not cutting out. No biggie. You can sort that with a quick re-wire.

The way in which yhou have terminals 2 and 3 connected is a worry though. If the unit has an internal connection between terminal 2 and 3 it will produce a dead short. The diagram on the unit doesn'd say what terminal 3 is used for so it may just be a spare, in which case luck is on your side. In any event do not re-power the unit as currently connected as damage may result.

At the moment I think you have two problems. One, the connections to the terminal block. Two, this is a guess but probably the original problem and the cause of your frustrations, programming. Once we get the wiring sorted out the programming should be easy enough to nut out with a bit of trial and error. For future referrence, for yourself and others and I'm not having a go here, trial and error isn't a good approach to wiring as irreparable damage is a common outcome.

If you can bear with me I'll draw you a little picture and attempt to upload it.
2000 light beers from home.
User avatar
emnpaul
 
Posts: 666
Joined: Friday Apr 02, 2010 8:25 pm
Location: The Craft Beer Wilderness

Re: Setting Up for All Grain

Postby emnpaul » Sunday Jan 22, 2012 11:41 am

Still trying to figure out how to get the pictures to appear but here's a start.

Ha! Got it!

Feel free to ask questions.

Image












Image
2000 light beers from home.
User avatar
emnpaul
 
Posts: 666
Joined: Friday Apr 02, 2010 8:25 pm
Location: The Craft Beer Wilderness

Re: Setting Up for All Grain

Postby bilgerat » Sunday Jan 22, 2012 2:58 pm

Thanks a lot for your reply I will spend some time tonight rehashing the wiring and let you know how I get on.
User avatar
bilgerat
 
Posts: 105
Joined: Tuesday May 24, 2011 6:58 pm
Location: Perth Western Australia

Re: Setting Up for All Grain

Postby bilgerat » Sunday Jan 22, 2012 6:38 pm

OK I have connected up as shown in your diagram, I have the active brown wire connected to terminal 11 then a jumper wire from 11 to terminal 1, I come out of terminal 2 with a white wire to the active pin on a three pin plug(socket), I have the neutral blue wire connected to terminal 12 then a jumper wire from 12 to the neutral on the three pin plug(socket), the heater element is connected via the three pin plug, I am getting temperature display but the heater element is not getting any power, where to from here, thanks for your assistance
User avatar
bilgerat
 
Posts: 105
Joined: Tuesday May 24, 2011 6:58 pm
Location: Perth Western Australia

Re: Setting Up for All Grain

Postby emnpaul » Monday Jan 23, 2012 3:55 pm

I have a feeling that since your unit is supplied by keg king it will be primarily designed for refridgeration i.e. cooling. It is therefore likely that the primary contacts (16 amp,terminals 1&2) are intended for cooling and the auxiliary contacts (5 amp, terminals 4&5) are for heating. They are designed this way so that the most heavily loaded and frequently operated contacts last longer and save some coin on a pissweak set of heating contacts. There is a way around this but I'll get to that later if necessary.

First off you need to test your SF 800 unit is working correctly. If you use the instructions to change the set point you should be able to prove that terminals 1&2 work correctly but are intended for cooling. I assume you've figured out how to change parameters using the instructions. Plug a light or battery charger or test lamp (whatever you have is fine) into the 3 pin plug. Change the highest temperature limit (E2) to a value lower than the ambient temperature. The SF 800 should interpret this as being too hot inside the fridge and attempt to bring the fridg compressor on. Only instead of a compressor it should light your test lamp.

Let me know how you get on.
2000 light beers from home.
User avatar
emnpaul
 
Posts: 666
Joined: Friday Apr 02, 2010 8:25 pm
Location: The Craft Beer Wilderness

Next

Return to Grain brewing

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests