Reducing Beer Haze

[Trough Lolly]

G'day all,
Over the last 12 to 18 months, I've noticed an increase in haze, and particularily chill haze, in my beers. Now whilst I do admit to use a variety of base malts, including Weyermann Pilsner malt that is known to produce haze, I decided to modify some of my brewday processes to see if it's me as well as the malt that's responsible for the beer haze - and I thought I'd share my findings.

Firstly some background: For those who'd like some more info on finings and cold conditioning, you may wish to click on an earlier post of mine...

Now call me crazy but I do keep detailed notes on every step I take on each and every brewday - I've been keeping a log since 1995 and it's the best way I've found to eliminate or find the sources of subsequent faults in my brews. Admittedly, I didn't take terribly comprehensive notes when I did kit brewing, but it's a habit that's good to have.

My last two batches were my SNPA clone and an IPA. I brewed the SNPA clone first, racked it to brighten in a secondary fermenter and then repitched the IPA onto the US-05 slurry (so I suppose it's a USIPA!!). I brewed both beers in almost exactly the same way; same single infusion mash, same mash duration, same mashout/sparge temps and volumes. The thing was that the mashout temps were substantially lower than what I've done before. I used to use 82C sparge water and for these two brews, the sparge temp was 76C.

Another variable was mashtun volume - Because I'm doing 23L batches or thereabouts, and I have been using a 10 Gallon mashtun, I can add the entire sparge volume on top of the mash as a combined mashout / sparge rest and without stirring, I can simply runoff the mash until clear and then drain in one go to the kettle.

The third an final variable (ignoring different recipies / grists for the moment) was the boil. I deliberately made sure that both worts had a strong, rolling, uncovered boil for the full 60 minutes. In the past, I've pulled down the gasflow to get a gentle rolling boil, but this time both worts were almost leaping out of the kettle! Oh, and neither brew had Irish Moss or any boil fining added...

The SNPA was in primary for one week, racked and left to brighten in secondary for three weeks.
The IPA was on the (very active) SNPA's slurry in primary for the whole three weeks. So I expected the SNPA to be the brighter beer...

I was wrong! When I kegged both beers at room temperature last Sunday, they were both star bright! This supports my suspicion that it's not just racking beers to secondary that makes them brighter. Sure, some people swear by secondary conditioning, but it does have an infection risk and the IPA was crystal clear despite being left alone on a thick bed of break material, trub and fresh yeast for three weeks at 21C that took more than a week to drop out of the 1.060 OG wort.

Whilst I didn't conduct a formally scientific or rigorous process, I can conclude that temperature control, especially the mash rest and sparge temps and having a vigorous rolling boil can substantially assist in reducing haze in beer before the wort goes into the fermenter. As far as grains go, these two brews were made from the exact same sacks of grain and yeast strains that the earlier hazy beers were made from...

Sorry for the long post...hope this helps.

Cheers,
TL

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I find much in there to agree with.

My beer goes from the first fermenter it went into into packaging. Always two weeks or so from when it took the plunge - first week in the fridge and second week usually just in the brew-room.

I've (nearly) always boiled for 90minutes and quite vigorously - two 2400watt elements for 24 and 48 litre batches. I like to remove one element at around the time of the flavour hop addition and I use koppafloc.

I get some variation in clarity, but I think that when I do a *cough* 'proper' *cough* mash-out (mid 70's), I get better clarity.

As much as I would like to pontificate about the malts I use contributing one way or another, I cannot. I've read stuff about chocolate malt lending some *mumble* that helps with chill haze and so I've taken to including some in the last few ales. It's too early to tell and I will just have to brew more in order to find out... *sigh*

[James L]

Have you tried an experiment to see whether increasing the temp of the sparge water at mash out has any effect on haze?

You could try and experiment to compare using sparge water of about 72C (66 in the tun), and 82 (76 in the tun) at mashout. Maybe by increasing the mashout temp and inactivating the enzymes in the grain you are increasing the likelihood of haze...

I wouldnt know... i'm just curious as to why you need to increase the sparge water at mashout when you are going to boil and deactivate the enzymes in the grain anyway.

[Trough Lolly]

I find much in there to agree with.

My beer goes from the first fermenter it went into into packaging. Always two weeks or so from when it took the plunge - first week in the fridge and second week usually just in the brew-room.

I've (nearly) always boiled for 90minutes and quite vigorously - two 2400watt elements for 24 and 48 litre batches. I like to remove one element at around the time of the flavour hop addition and I use koppafloc.

I get some variation in clarity, but I think that when I do a *cough* 'proper' *cough* mash-out (mid 70's), I get better clarity.

As much as I would like to pontificate about the malts I use contributing one way or another, I cannot. I've read stuff about chocolate malt lending some *mumble* that helps with chill haze and so I've taken to including some in the last few ales. It's too early to tell and I will just have to brew more in order to find out... *sigh*

Agreed - There's no doubt that the malt used does have an influence on haze - after all, it's the malt the provides the protein, tannins and phenolics in the first place. How we manage their respective levels is largely determined before the boil, during the mash...

Cheers,
TL

[Trough Lolly]

Have you tried an experiment to see whether increasing the temp of the sparge water at mash out has any effect on haze?

You could try and experiment to compare using sparge water of about 72C (66 in the tun), and 82 (76 in the tun) at mashout. Maybe by increasing the mashout temp and inactivating the enzymes in the grain you are increasing the likelihood of haze...

I've had a number of discussions with other brewers and the consensus was that a hot sparge would certainly increase the tannins in the wort which in turn, can lead to increased chill haze. So, I made a deliberate attempt to change my past practices and sparge at cooler temps. That, and other factors mentioned above, lead to much brighter beer. So whilst I didn't perform an experiment as such, the evidence is clear that the changes I made have improved the clarity of the beer; and, yes, I believe there is a relationship between haze and water temps in the mashtun.

I wouldnt know... i'm just curious as to why you need to increase the sparge water at mashout when you are going to boil and deactivate the enzymes in the grain anyway.

This is a question commonly asked during debates on the merit, or otherwise, of a mashout step.

As you know, I need to add water to the mashtun to complete the mash process and give me a boil volume to work with. I typically aim for around 2.3L per kilo of grist so a 5kg grainbill will be doughed-in to around 12L of water, ending up at 66C. Without my Promash app handy, from memory I need around 18L of sparge water to get my pre-boil volume (with false bottom losses, grain asborption etc etc). That used to be done via multiple additions of sparge water...

I won't bore everyone with the pro's and con's of the mashout step, but I thought that since I need to sparge the mash, why not simply add the sparge volume at mashout temps so I don't have to muck around with pH levels and adding several water additions during the sparge - and since the mashtun is big enough it can hold 30L of water from the HLT and 5+kg of grain with ease. Doing a single drain of the mashtun also speeds up the brewday!!

One thing I didn't mention in my original post was my mash temp which was 66C.

Cheers,
TL

[James L]

TL,

what i meant to say was: why you need to increase the sparge water temp at mashout when you are going to boil the wort anyway.

I think you pretty much answered my question..

Cheers mate

James

[drsmurto]

Apart from deactivating the enzymes the mash out step also 'thins' the mash liquor. More scientifically, the viscosity decreases allowing the liquor to flow better and in theory makes the runoff easier. I actually went the other way, i was mashing out at ~75 and have since tried to increase that to 78. I now do a 90 min boil with the first 30 mins very vigorous and then slow it down a touch when i add the 60 min bittering addition. The last beer was still hazy but that may just have been that i didnt give it enough time to drop clear?

Another option and one that seems to be spilt 50/50 in opinion is the protein rest (52-54) region that is usually employed when a lot of adjuncts such as torrified or raw wheat are used. I have done this only once and that was when i was using 100% wey pils. I did get a clear beer but was that due to the protein rest of extended lagering........

There are so many variables in this process and like you TL, i love the brewing process as much, if not more than the final product. Maybe thats the scientific background, maybe its just the quest for a better beer or maybe its just some obsessive/compulsive disorder yet to be diagnosed.....

Anyway, love your posts TL, very informative and always gives me more to think about. Am very impressed you got a nice bright beer fro US56 as my experience to date is hazy beers but youve got me thinking about a lot more areas of my process.

Cheers
DrSmurto

[Trough Lolly]

Cheers Doc...and thanks for the clarification James.

My brew setup and I seem to get along with Wyeast 1056 / US-05 quite well. I'm not sure if it's temp control in the cellar under the house or whatever, but I've never had the haze issues with this strain that others seem to get. Whether I get lazy and tip in a sachet of it dry or make up a starter from the smack pack, it always does a good job in 5-7 days and drops out nicely leaving a lovely layer of fresh pale tan yeast on top of the trub cake.

Just lucky I guess!!

Cheers,
TL

[lethaldog]

Cheers Doc...and thanks for the clarification James.

My brew setup and I seem to get along with Wyeast 1056 / US-05 quite well. I'm not sure if it's temp control in the cellar under the house or whatever, but I've never had the haze issues with this strain that others seem to get. Whether I get lazy and tip in a sachet of it dry or make up a starter from the smack pack, it always does a good job in 5-7 days and drops out nicely leaving a lovely layer of fresh pale tan yeast on top of the trub cake.

Just lucky I guess!!

Cheers,
TL

I cant say i have ever had any problems with this yeast as such as i have brewed both kits and AG brews with it and the only problem i have ever had with haze was deffinately the chill variety, got onto some polyclar and it has solved all of those problems..
Do you use polyclar TL? if not maybe you should grab some as its inexpensive and very easy to use..

[SpillsMostOfIt]

The joy of brewing - really!

Is the issue one of liquor to grist ratios - I think not. Mr Lolly and Dr Smurto both mash at traditional ratios and then sparge. I usually mash at around 3.5-4.0 to 1 and sparge with just a little bit. I used to do full-volume mashes and think I might again.

Is it an issue of mash pH? I don't think so because I've used the Five Star pH buffering thingy for (nearly) ever. Not sure about the rest of you.

Is it the yeast we use? Clearly not (pardon the pun). When thinking about this conversation, I'm only considering my brews that have been fed to US-05. When playing with dried yeasts, I expected Danstar Nottingham to produce clearer beers than Fermentis US-05. Splitting a batch and fermenting the halves concurrently with those two yeasts usually produced *clearer* beers with US-05 (ignoring any other differences).

What about boil vigour? I went through a spate of trying to reduce my boil vigour as much as I possibly can as I suspect vigour affects hop flavour/aroma. Did not affect clouds.

I'm getting variations - albeit happily slight. I bought some polyclar to see what that will do but haven't used it with my filtering setup yet (it's filtered three brews to date). Upon reflection, I wonder if it isn't the temperature variations of my Storage Facility once I've packaged it...

[Trough Lolly]

Do you use polyclar TL? if not maybe you should grab some as its inexpensive and very easy to use..

Yep, I bought some from Ross a long time ago - and it does the job well...but I wanted to find out where I was generating the haze during the brewday...

Cheers,
TL

[drsmurto]

Thats my thoughts too at them moment, am sure i will get some polyclar and prob even a filtering setup but thats not how my brain works. As a scientist i dont believe in covering up problems, i solve them so i want to knwo what it is that I am doing that is producing the haze.

I tend to use wey pils malt for most beers other than english ales (MO) or porters/stouts (MO or JW ale).

I really wish i had the ability to directly heat my mash tun so i could more easily do step mashing. Decoctions are something on the to do list this year but only when i have an entire day to kill. I tend to do a lot of things whilst brewing now i feel comfortable with my setup. IMHO i produce nice beers they just lack the clarity of a commercial source and that just takes the shine of it.

When my lotto numbers comeup i can splurge of the Beerbelly mash pilot (still waiting on the drool icon).

[SpillsMostOfIt]

Apologies for the topic drift, but I'm just putting the finishing touches to my Pilot Plant Kettle.

It's a $20 20litre stockpot with a standard ball valve I've been using on the stovetop for ages. Stainless steel hose braid hopper stopper. Old Dip Tube and Other-End-Of-Hose-Braid-Fitting, weldless thermowell. Ten dollar kettle element.

Under $100 all up including silver solder and flux, silicon O-rings, etc.

Into the thermowell, I will stick a DS18S20 digital temperature sensor that will feed a (initially) Netmedia BX-24 driving a solid-state relay. With this, I will be able to throttle the grunt of the element to not burn/scorch anything and maintain a constant temp.

I've bought a $5 splatter guard from Ikea to make a false bottom kind of thing to further protect against BIAB bag burning and as a belt-and-braces hop stopper thing.

When done, I might borrow a pump and do the world's first BIABRIMS brew...

[BierMeister]

I have noticed that no one has mentioned whether they chill their wort after boiling.

What mainly contributes to haze (especially chill haze) is;
1. the initial protein levels of the grain bill
2. the use of a protein rest
3. the length and ferosity of the boil
4. the time left at hot temps after the boil (chilling the wort imediatly after boil will reduce the amount of chill haze)
5. other factors such as mash temps, strain of yeast etc... (though I would say this last one to a minimal degree compared to the rest)
6. Lagering at cool temps (secondary fermentation in a fridge or cold cellar)

I would recommend an all round approach to the problem of haze be taken.

The first problem of the protein levels in the grain bill can be conteracted with grists, sugars etc.. but when making certain styles or receipes then the use of a protein rest and a long boil and wort chilling should together reduce the haze problem to almost nil or at least not noticeable. I personally stay clear of sugars or grists trying to remain as purest as I can.
Temp step mashing is the easiest way I find to use a protein rest starting at 55C with a grain to liquor ratio of 1:2 or there abouts (none of what I do is an exact science, but never had a chill haze or any other haze to mention) Usaully letting it rest for 20min to 30min I add boiling water to bring the mash to between 65 and 68C depending on the beer. I admitedly do have a big mash tonne, but an immersion heater could be used to do the same without adding the extra water.
I boil like most for a minimum of 60mins but 90mins is not out of the question and I now always use my immersion chiller that I made out of an old 6m length of copper pipe which cools the wort within 20-30mins and waters the garden at the same time! Also the reference to Secondary fermentation having nil or little effect may be true in that case, but cold conditioning or lagering does also reduce haze to a degree, but I would agree that if the beer has already got a haze problem it will not be fixed intirely by lagering.

I have never used finings as per my above purest comments, but I'm sure they work wonders too.

In conclusion I would say that by just focussing on or trying to reduce your haze problem with just one method will only give minimal results and the use of all the methods will give the best result.

[SpillsMostOfIt]

No Chill. No Mash Tun. Immersion Elements.

I get a spread from Clear through to (a recent Rye APA) Diamond Bright.

[BierMeister]

No mash tun? What do you use?

[drsmurto]

CCing and/or lagering. I am skeptical. Chill haze is caused by proteins which will still be in the beer regardless of whether you lager or not. Its highly unlikely you can drop protein out of suspension without the aid of something like polyclar or gelatine. Extended lagering at or below 0C might, maybe, possibly help but i am not convinced the solubilty of proteins in beer that havent precipitated out with the cold break will change that significantly.

As for chilling, i have a plate chiller and the time between cooling depends on whether i am steeping aroma hops or not. At most i start cooling 25 mins after flameout. But the no chillers have reported bright beers.

i suspect that choice of malt, mash schedule and boil vigour play the most important roles in this.

[BierMeister]

And I quote,

but cold conditioning or lagering does also reduce haze to a degree, but I would agree that if the beer has already got a haze problem it will not be fixed intirely by lagering.

and

In conclusion I would say that by just focussing on or trying to reduce your haze problem with just one method will only give minimal results and the use of all the methods will give the best result.

I do agree that Lagering will not fix the problem of chill haze, but I do disagree that it has no effect. Yes I did not clarify what temp to lager at, but that would be like saying what temp to brew at. It depends on the beer. At the lower temps various chill haze proteins come out at various temps and they will settle after time. So yes, if you want a clear pale lager beer then lagering at 0-4C would be ideal and this WILL help with the total haze effect including chill haze. But, and I say again, a total (holistic if you will) approach to the problem of haze will give the best result.

[SpillsMostOfIt]

No mash tun? What do you use?

BIAB. DunkSparge(tm)

[Kevnlis]

I keep telling you guys three days at -1C at the end of lagering

But no one listens to me