What are you brewing?

[drsmurto]

I have a fellow brewer coming around tomorrow to have a chat about english beers. He is a hophead and so is keen to learn about english beers which tend to be more balanced with a greater malt presence.

Decided the best way to discover english beer is by brewing one together so we are doing a batch of this.....

7.59 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (Simpsons) (5.9 EBC) Grain 90.00 %
0.42 kg Wheat, Torrified (Bairds) (3.9 EBC) Grain 5.00 %
0.21 kg Crystal, Dark (Bairds) (240.0 EBC) Grain 2.50 %
0.21 kg Crystal, Medium (Bairds) (170.0 EBC) Grain 2.50 %
28.00 gm Challenger [6.10 %] (60 min) Hops 9.2 IBU
25.00 gm Bramling Cross [8.60 %] (60 min) Hops 12.6 IBU
14.00 gm Challenger [6.10 %] (20 min) Hops 2.8 IBU
20.00 gm Bramling Cross [8.60 %] (20 min) Hops 6.1 IBU
14.00 gm Bramling Cross [8.60 %] (0 min) Hops -
14.00 gm Challenger [6.10 %] (0 min) Hops -
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 5.0 min) Misc

40L
OG 1.046
IBU 31

Single infusion at 67C with a thin decoction mash-out to hit 78C. 90 min mash, 90 min boil.

We are both going to use top cropped WY1469 (West Yorkshire).

[Bum]

Been meaning to give Brambling Cross a run. Be sure to let us know how this one works out.

[matr]

Are you sure the yeast will be ok drs? I've heard some "expert" advise about using top cropped yeasts..

[drsmurto]

Been meaning to give Brambling Cross a run. Be sure to let us know how this one works out.

I've used it a few times now in single hop bitters but decided to combine it with challenger which i am a huge fan of. Get your hands on a bottle of Ruddles County - Bramling Cross is the flavour/aroma hop in that.

Are you sure the yeast will be ok drs? I've heard some "expert" advise about using top cropped yeasts..

I'll run the risk.....

[warra48]

I don't brew many lagers, but from time to time, I like to do one. If I do one now, it should be ready to drink by Christmas time. My son-in-law loves his lagers, but he's not into mainstream aus stuff. He likes his imported Stella, Becks etc, and even buys the occasional carton of Coopers Sparkling Ale (on pain of death, he saves me the empty longnecks).
Now is the time for me, after 4 batches of pom/irish ales from the 1 smackpack of WY1968 have built up my drinking stocks nicely.

I'm not after any particular style, just a generic lager/pils. This is what I'm planning as soon as I have a free fermenter:

4500.00 gm Premium Pilsner (2.5 EBC) Grain 90.00 %
500.00 gm Vienna Malt (6.9 EBC) Grain 10.00 %
50.00 gm Hallertau NZ [8.10 %] (60 min) Hops 39.5 IBU
20.00 gm Hallertauer Tradition [5.70 %] (10 min) Hops 4.0 IBU
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Bohemian Lager (Wyeast Labs #2124) 4 litre starter

Water will probably be 50% tank water/50% local water, without further additions, unless I get some strong advice to the contrary.
I bought a stack of Vienna a year ago, and haven't touched it, so I need to start using it at some stage. Any thoughts on the hopping schedule?
What do you think? Does it look OK?

[drsmurto]

Looks good to me Warra.

I'd be tempted to go straight rainwater.

[Bum]

I've used it a few times now in single hop bitters but decided to combine it with challenger which i am a huge fan of. Get your hands on a bottle of Ruddles County - Bramling Cross is the flavour/aroma hop in that.

I'll keep any eye out for it. Wanting to give the hop a go either way but unsure as how to build a beer it'd work in. Hence my question about your recipe in general. I'm not sure of my grain bill is what I guess I am trying to get at. Excluding one IPA, I'm yet to put down a proper English style so I'm slightly lost.

I have been reading a lot of recipes, naturally, so I'm not after a crash course or anything like that. I do have a rough idea about how they're supposed to be built but I can't taste these beers in my mind when I look at the recipes like I sorta of can with APAs etc. Does that make any sense?

[drsmurto]

I've used it a few times now in single hop bitters but decided to combine it with challenger which i am a huge fan of. Get your hands on a bottle of Ruddles County - Bramling Cross is the flavour/aroma hop in that.

I'll keep any eye out for it. Wanting to give the hop a go either way but unsure as how to build a beer it'd work in. Hence my question about your recipe in general. I'm not sure of my grain bill is what I guess I am trying to get at. Excluding one IPA, I'm yet to put down a proper English style so I'm slightly lost.

I have been reading a lot of recipes, naturally, so I'm not after a crash course or anything like that. I do have a rough idea about how they're supposed to be built but I can't taste these beers in my mind when I look at the recipes like I sorta of can with APAs etc. Does that make any sense?

I have brewed a lot of english bitters and have settled on the 90/5/5 (ale/crystal/torrified wheat) split for the grain bill. I sometimes spilt the crystal up like i have done this time with some dark, some medium but the overall % of crystal remains at 5% (except for the Landlord which is 97/3 MO/crystal). A lot less hop flavour and aroma than an APA so i tend to stick to at, or below 1g/L at 20 and 0 and have been progressively going lower still. Characterful english yeast and that means a liquid yeast. Simple really. Dry hopping is not normally done although there are always exceptions to the rules. I tend to aim for a BU:GU ratio of 0.65-0.70 with a mash temp in the 65-67C range.

I have spent many a session chewing the fat with Butters on english beers, their history, how they differ depending on region and we tend to get very into the science behind the brewing process. Water chemistry is also discussed. He brews english bitters/milds almost exclusively and makes very good beer. Mine tend to be have a tad more hop flavour and aroma than his but that's a personal preference.

English IPAs are even more basic when it comes to the grain bill. As you increase the OG of a beer the need for crystal malts decreases as you can get those flavour contributions from the base malt itself. So i now tend to use an english base malt with some choc malt to adjust the colour. BU:GU ration of 0.90-1 mashing at around 67C.

These are 2 styles i brew regularly and have received a lot of positive feedback from the local brewing brethren so i am happy that what i am doing is working. Hopefully, and sooner rather than later i would like to return to Durham in the NE of England and drink the handpumped ale knowing what i know now about brewing them.

A month ago i hand several people around christening my handpump with a rye ESB and you couldn't wipe the smile off my face as i pulled/pushed out pint after pint of 'warm flat' beer. Happier than a pig in shit. As was Butters.

[Bum]

Thanks for that, DrSmurto. Lots to think about there.

My current brew schedule has this one pretty far down the line so that gives me a while to work out what it is that I want. Had been leaning towards Something like Warra's recipe (but adapting the hopping) here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=10065 Most of the beers I've got lined up are imperials so it'll be good to have something a little less intense (but still tasty) on hand. Not quite in line with your recommended percentages but certainly not so far out that I won't see what you mean, I think.

[rotten]

I just brewed my first AG drsmurto golden ale. Whole kit & kaboodle this time. Got pics and info so will start a thread soon.
Cheers.

[squirt in the turns]

I just brewed my first AG drsmurto golden ale. Whole kit & kaboodle this time. Got pics and info so will start a thread soon.
Cheers.

Nice one rotten. I think this recipe must have deflowered more AG virgins than all other grain recipes combined!

I actually came back from Craftbrewer with 2 vacuum sealed bags: drsmurto's golden ale, and Trough Lolly's SNPA clone, with no preference of which to do first. Fate decided for me - come my first AG brewday, the seal on the GA bag had evidently gone and and air had got in.

[rotten]

Hey squirt, what an uncanny (or not) coincidence. I got drsmurtos golden ale and TL SNPA from beerbelly.
We must have good taste!!! Gonna brew SNPA next weekend.
Cheers

[Bum]

Pliny the Elder tribute (not a clone, just using the same grains and hops, wouldn't presume to equal it so I'll just make something in the theme).

87% pale
4% light crystal
4% carapils
5% dex
Lots of Columbus, Centennial and Simcoe

Missed my OG by a fair chunk so I'm thinking of beefing it up with some LDME.

[drsmurto]

Top cropped from the bitter i brewed on Saturday so i have some more fresh, healthy yeast for another bitter I plan on brewing tomorrow or Friday.

Will probably use the same grist as the last one and use up some or all of the open packs of hops - styrian goldings, challenger, EKG and bramling cross.

Bum - i notice a lot of brewers do this and it confuses me. Carapils adds body, dex lightens the body. So why add both? Why not use the mash temp and time to adjust the fermentability of the wort and subsequent body of the beer?

[lethaldog]

Been playing with a new recipe for a Chimay Tripel, probably gonna do it this weekend

Type: All Grain
Date: 7/09/2010
Batch Size: 19.00 L
Brewer: Leigh
Boil Size: 26.00 L Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 90 min Equipment: My Equipment
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.90 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (3.9 EBC) Grain 78.03 %
0.16 kg Aromatic Malt (51.2 EBC) Grain 2.55 %
0.12 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (3.9 EBC) Grain 1.91 %
50.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (90 min) Hops 29.8 IBU
20.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (5 min) Hops 2.2 IBU
20.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00 %] (5 min) Hops 1.8 IBU
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1.10 kg Candi Sugar, Clear (1.0 EBC) Sugar 17.52 %
1 Pkgs Belgian Ale (Wyeast Labs #1214) Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.081 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.010 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.020 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.98 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.65 %
Bitterness: 33.8 IBU Calories: 90 cal/l
Est Color: 10.5 EBC Color: Color


If it turns out half as nice as the Chimay ill be happy!!
Was gonna use the wyeast as stated but i think i may even go get a few stubbies and use that yeast ( what better excuse to give the boss )

[Bum]

Bum - i notice a lot of brewers do this and it confuses me. Carapils adds body, dex lightens the body. So why add both? Why not use the mash temp and time to adjust the fermentability of the wort and subsequent body of the beer?

Like I said - I am working from a recipe designed by the bloke who brews the commercial beer in question so the decision was not mine. It hurt a little to be honest - this is only the second time I've used dex for anything other than priming and the first was for a kit cider some time ago.

As for the carapils, I'm not sure why many brewers suggest all it does is add body. Have a chew of some (like I did on brew day with this point in mind) - tastes much sweeter and a little bready in comparison to the pale malt we'll all throw kilos of at a beer and not question its worth. Carapils adds flavour while it adds body - that flavour isn't earthshattering but to deny its existence is kinda pointless. And as for "why add both?" I guess it'd be too thick or thin without one or the other. You can't just omit both and add base malt until you get the same OG and get the same flavour beer.

Personally, it is my preference to omit dex from my brewing and while I have nothing against carapils as such I will always choose a spec grain with a little more depth to it but I usually like my beers slightly busy. If this beer turns out well I'll probably redo it with the carapils subbed for something I've never used and see how it goes from there. Cararye maybe?

[drsmurto]

Bum - i notice a lot of brewers do this and it confuses me. Carapils adds body, dex lightens the body. So why add both? Why not use the mash temp and time to adjust the fermentability of the wort and subsequent body of the beer?

Like I said - I am working from a recipe designed by the bloke who brews the commercial beer in question so the decision was not mine. It hurt a little to be honest - this is only the second time I've used dex for anything other than priming and the first was for a kit cider some time ago.

As for the carapils, I'm not sure why many brewers suggest all it does is add body. Have a chew of some (like I did on brew day with this point in mind) - tastes much sweeter and a little bready in comparison to the pale malt we'll all throw kilos of at a beer and not question its worth. Carapils adds flavour while it adds body - that flavour isn't earthshattering but to deny its existence is kinda pointless. And as for "why add both?" I guess it'd be too thick or thin without one or the other. You can't just omit both and add base malt until you get the same OG and get the same flavour beer.

Personally, it is my preference to omit dex from my brewing and while I have nothing against carapils as such I will always choose a spec grain with a little more depth to it but I usually like my beers slightly busy. If this beer turns out well I'll probably redo it with the carapils subbed for something I've never used and see how it goes from there. Cararye maybe?

I've used carapils before and like you, chew on every malt to get an idea of its tastes.

Of the crystal malts, carapils has the least flavour of any i have tasted. Personal preference/taste in that respect i guess.

Dex is added to beer to dry it out by lowering the FG. A very similar result is obtained by lowering the mash temperature. Not exactly the same i admit but very close. For me, lowering the mash temp is the way to go but again it personal preference. I am not big on adjuncts.

You can't compare base malt and crystal malts, they are 2 very different things with very different processes used to achieve the end result.

Crystal rye malt is very nice, also caramel wheat. Carabohemian is my barley based crystal malt of choice at the moment. Almost as ballsy as caraaroma with less colour and a tad smoother.

I started out AG brewing with complicated grain bills with sometimes up to 8 or more different malts. These days i keep it very simple. I think my beers have a better balance because of it but i will admit that the fun of the early days and chucking so much stuff in did teach me a lot about brewing. Sometimes you learn more from actually doing something yourself rather than simply relying on the perceived wisdom found on brewing sites of which i am just as guilty of preaching (hopefully less than i used to).

Anyway, have fun with the Pliny. I had a few bottles of a clone brewed by BYB from AHB. One of the hoppiest beers i have tasted. Could still taste it the next day!

[Bum]

You can't compare base malt and crystal malts, they are 2 very different things with very different processes used to achieve the end result.

I guess that is what I was getting at though. Your implication was that the two would cancel each other out leaving only the pale and the light crystal. My point was that I do think their inclusion will change the beer beyond how the ingredients look on the screen.

Anyway, have fun with the Pliny. I had a few bottles of a clone brewed by BYB from AHB. One of the hoppiest beers i have tasted. Could still taste it the next day!

Mine is looking to be similar (as I am sure pretty much all HB versions would be) but Russian River's Pliny on tap, while very big, is one of the most well balanced imperial anythings I have ever had the pleasure of drinking. Comparatively disappointing in the bottle though (still great but not at all the same beer). Dunno what they do to it (unless Vinnie has told porkies in his recipe) but I was expecting some vicious, grassy hop-monster that would ruin all beers (and my mouth) forever - when I did get to try it I was flabbergasted at how delicate this beer is, so in some respects it did ruin all beers for me but not how I expected. With this beer it is pretty easy to dip in and out of it and other beers in the one session - which is not something you can usually say for a +8%, 100 and something IBU beer.

When I say "I like my beers busy" I don't just mean my own beers - I do tend to gravitate towards the more complex examples of my preferred styles. I am trying to drink my way around this position however.

[Tipsy]

Doing a simple CUB style lager to test out my new brewery.

4.75 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (3.2 EBC) Grain 92.49 %
0.04 kg Roasted Barley (Joe White) (1398.7 EBC) Grain 0.70 %
25.00 gm Pride of Ringwood [8.30 %] (60 min) Hops 20.8 IBU
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
0.35 kg Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 EBC) Sugar 6.82 %
2 Pkgs SafLager Swiss Lager (DCL Yeast #S-189) Yeast-Lager

It's good to be brewing AG again. I think I'll do a Munich Helles next.

[elec]

Had another crack at a Red Ale, the last few come out too roasty for my liking so tried something simple and cubed this one yesterday, looks and smells the business
21L , no-chill.
82% BB Ale malt
13% Carared
5% Caraaroma
40g Styraian Goldings pellets @ 45min
30g EKG plugs @ 15 mins
Successfully procuring liquid yeast has proved problematic due to the tyranny of distance, ( and unreliable local freight companies) so will use either S-04 or Nottingham.

regards