Is BIAB a valid technique?

[Planner]

I can hear the dark side calling, it started as a whisper, then it became a voice inside my head (at least this voice was telling me to do good things), it’s now getting more persistent calling me to AG.

I’ve been reading up on BIAB on AHB, where there is no shortage of heated discussions on the topic. Of particular interest was the thread on “Move to all grain for thirty bucks” before it degenerated.
I have a 15l pot, I have a thermometer and I have a gas burner capable of boiling the pot, all I need is the voile (a small outlay).
Looking for pros and cons on this method of brewing, and input from those more experienced than I.

As I see it:

Pros.
Cheap intro to AG. to test the waters.
A process that I think I can do.
Potentially better tasting beer.
At present I don’t have the coin or the space to set up a full 3V AG system that I may or may not continue to use.

Cons.
Smaller batch, at present not a concern to me because of the stocks I have.
More time consuming than K&K. Is it more time consuming than K&B with 60min steeping and up to 60min boils?

Looking for direction on whether it’s worthwhile venture. I haven’t spent enough time on AHB to determine who’s offering good advice, and who’s offering well meaning albeit dodgey advice. Some of the advice in the thread on yeast handling and sanitation has led me to question the thread. First impressions indicate it's too good to be true (grenerally never correct), so I will probably give it a go anyway.



Planner

[Tipsy]

I saw a demo day at G & G and thought it was fantastic.

If I was starting over again I would start with this system for sure.

I don't know of any cons that I can think of.

[drsmurto]

Your pros and cons relate to AG vs kits not the technique known as BIAB.

If you want to get into AG and $ is of concern then BIAB and a small pot is the way to go. I have never done this but there are those here that do and will help you minus the crap you have to deal with on AHB.

I'd personally suggest you steer clear of the $30 thread as it is littered with close enough is good enough, no need to measure, bung it in advice which i think is not the way to approach AG brewing for the first time. If you get the basics worked out and do things properly the first time you will benefit in the long run, advice that is applicable in most, if not all, walks of life.

I can certainly help you out with recipes, there is no difference between the 2 techniques when it comes to recipe formulation as far as i can tell. The only real difference i can see is that you use all the water at the one time when mashing and then lift out a bag of grain, let it drain and then boil. Much quicker and simpler than traditional 3 vessel AG.

PM Spillsmostofit or Thirstyboy on AHB for any questions, they are both knowledgeable and experienced brewers who happily give out advice.

[Planner]

I'd personally suggest you steer clear of the $30 thread as it is littered with close enough is good enough, no need to measure, bung it in advice which i think is not the way to approach AG brewing for the first time. If you get the basics worked out and do things properly the first time you will benefit in the long run, advice that is applicable in most, if not all, walks of life.

DocS

That's the exact reason I was asking for advice on HB&B, I'm happy with my sanitation, temp control and am gradually getting my head around ingredient and yeast selection. I was just looking for direction on the mash process.


Tipsy

I missed the demo at G&G, by the sound of it the day was a success. Junior footy puts a big hole in the weekend, and the 4hr return trip didn't help.


I can't see any reason not to proceed, I have most of the equipment, I have hooks in the shed suitable for hanging the bag, G&G isn't too much of a detour during work to gather ingredients and SWMBO is content (not quite happy) so making the bag shouldn't cost me too many points.

Only thing to do now is settle on a recipe.


Planner

[big dave]

Hey Planner

I am very interested in this idea. Had never heard of it until your post prompted me to hunt for some info. I have been thinking about AG for a little while, but frightened of SWMBO's reaction to the purchase of more gear. This looks like a relatively easy way to get started....

A fair bit of info on this forum I found.

http://www.biabrewer.info/index.php?sid ... e02827b83e

Keep us posted.

BD

[Planner]

A fair bit of info on this forum I found.

http://www.biabrewer.info/index.php?sid ... e02827b83e

Thanks BD

That's just what I need, another forum to steal more of my time. Will have a read over the weekend (looks like weather's gunna be average).

Trawling through recipes at present, trying to decide. Will most likely pick a PA or something similar.

Planner

[Bum]

The main guy behind that forum is one of the earliest pioneers of BIAB. He is pretty serious about helping people to develop their skills in the method and you could do much worse than read that forum front to back.

People will still make jokes about you brewing in a pillow case (or your grandma's curtains) but I think we're at the point where it is pretty well regarded as a legitimate brewing process.

Good luck with it.

[hirns]

do much worse than read that forum front to back.

Agree, if I remember correctly, the antagonist on the $30 forum actually apologises towards the end as the issue was based on a confusion of threads. Anyway, as I remember , it is worth reading to the end, but note the Dr. Smurto's comment.

Hirns

[Planner]

The main guy behind that forum is one of the earliest pioneers of BIAB. He is pretty serious about helping people to develop their skills in the method and you could do much worse than read that forum front to back.

Bum

The plan is to have a good read of that this weekend, although I've already convinced myself to give it a try.

it is worth reading to the end, but note the Dr. Smurto's comment.

Hirns

hirns

I did read the ahb thread to the end, although after 25 pages and 8-10 beers my info intake may not have been 100% toward the end.


Doc

Here's my first draft of a recipe, based on a CPA clone recipe of yours from a few years ago:
9l batch
1500g Pale Malt (5.9EBC)
80g Wheat Malt (3.5EBC)
20g Crystal Malt (40.0EBC)
200g Dex
8g PoR 60min (9%) will adjust after purchase if required
8g PoR 10min
8g PoR dry
CPA recultured yeast

Still learning beersmith but the results I've got are:
OG 1049
FG 1013
Alc 4.7%
EBC 8.5
IBU 25.4

Comments please. I know it's not a CPA clone with the later additions, but it's close to a couple of K&B brews I've done recently (and enjoyed), and would like to compare to.

Anyone had any experience with the 24x24 grain bags that G&G sell. They're about the same price as the materials from spotlight, with no begging involved to SWMBO to do the sewing (that won't cost any coin, but it will cost me something eventually).


Planner

[Bum]

Agree, if I remember correctly, the antagonist on the $30 forum actually apologises towards the end as the issue was based on a confusion of threads. Anyway, as I remember , it is worth reading to the end, but note the Dr. Smurto's comment.

Just wanted to clear up a little confusion I may have caused here - I was talking about biabbrewer.info not the $30 thread. I hate that thread with a passion and the good doctor's caveat does not go nearly far enough.

[billybushcook]

Trawling through recipes at present, trying to decide. Will most likely pick a PA or something similar.

Planner

Planner,
The first AG Recipe I did was given to me by Ross at Craft brewer, it was for a Lager but it makes a good pale Ale too!
I still do it regularily!

Mash @ 63-64 Deg

4Kg pale Pils malt
0.5Kg Wheat Malt
0.5 Kg flaked Maize
25g PoR 10%AA @ 60 Mins (lately I have been using 18g Galaxy @ 14%AA) It doesn't matter, just aim around 25IBU with what ever Hop you have or like.
S-04 or S-23 yeast

Don't boil too hard & you will find that some hop flavour & aroma will carry over.

A good simple recipe which produces an easy drinking light bodied beer.

Cheers, Mick.

[hirns]

Just wanted to clear up a little confusion I may have caused here - I was talking about biabbrewer.info not the $30 thread. I hate that thread with a passion and the good doctor's caveat does not go nearly far enough.

My fault Bum, sorry about that, did not look at the link and ASSUMED that the discussion was still upon the previous topic.... the benefits of speed reading !

Hirns

[Bum]

No need for an apology, Hirns. I didn't specify which reference I was discussing exactly.

[bullfrog]

As stupid as most of the information in the "$30" thread that is being discussed is, I recently tried my first ever AG, doing a stovetop BIAB that was inspired by that thread (note the operative word; inspired. Didn't follow the shoddy directions therein, but went for an over-gravity boil to dillute out to 21L). Wanted to see if it was worth it enough to shell-out for an urn. Due to the fact that I was brewing a day before my wedding, and, as such, rushing it a bit, I ended up getting pretty poor efficiency -- so I rectified the problem by brewing a second one yesterday, after getting back from our wee getaway. Have to say, went swimmingly. 75% efficiency and it's plugging away nicely in the ferm fridge now.

Whilst I've never brewed 3V (only sat-in on a few demo's) I really don't think that there is any reason that I would want to go from BIAB to 3V. Already placed an order for a 40L Birko Urn and am drawing up plans for a framed winch system which I'll build after popping into the big green shed. Really does feel great to have two AG brews fermenting away, right now (even if one of them is a mid-strength!) The dark side isn't all that tough, after all...

[Bum]

Due to the fact that I was brewing a day before my wedding

That rules pretty hard. Congrats by the way.

I'm not criticising stovetop brewing in general - did it myself for a number of brews. What I hate is that there seems to be a pretty widespread culture of halfarsedness (that is a word now) growing out of that thread and that can only mean bad things for HB in general.

[bullfrog]

I'm not criticising stovetop brewing in general - did it myself for a number of brews. What I hate is that there seems to be a pretty widespread culture of halfarsedness (that is a word now) growing out of that thread and that can only mean bad things for HB in general.

Couldn't agree more, and it's not just that thread. I've come to taking a grain of salt with almost every thread on that site. Much prefer this one because people think before they post, and if they don't know the answer to a question, they don't pretend that they do.

...pity my work has blocked this site on our network. Guess I must've spent too long on here!

[Planner]

As stupid as most of the information in the "$30" thread that is being discussed is, I recently tried my first ever AG, doing a stovetop BIAB that was inspired by that thread (note the operative word; inspired. Didn't follow the shoddy directions therein,

Bullfrog
Exactly my reason for starting this thread, the process seemed easy, but some of the advice being offered on other matters was scary. It did provide a couple of hours of entertaining (if not informative) reading.

Mash @ 63-64 Deg

4Kg pale Pils malt
0.5Kg Wheat Malt
0.5 Kg flaked Maize
25g PoR 10%AA @ 60 Mins (lately I have been using 18g Galaxy @ 14%AA) It doesn't matter, just aim around 25IBU with what ever Hop you have or like.
S-04 or S-23 yeast

Don't boil too hard & you will find that some hop flavour & aroma will carry over.

A good simple recipe which produces an easy drinking light bodied beer.

Cheers, Mick.

Mick
Thanks for the recipe, if I continue with my current equipment I will be brewing 9-10l batchs, which will allow me to do more recipes, so more different beers planner gets to taste.

Bum & hirns
No confusion here, my first reading of your posts had the intention clear.

Planner

[bullfrog]

It did provide a couple of hours of entertaining (if not informative) reading.

Yeah, I loved when Pat started flaming everyone for everything then it turned out that it was a completely different thread that he was annoyed at. I think that man should only be allowed access to the internet when he's sober!

If you're looking for some ideas for grist, my two brews are below, and I'm sure you could scale them by halving quantities on each:

Grist of my first BIAB AG-

2kg Vienna
1kg Munich
1kg Pale
0.3kg Crystal

Grist of my 2nd BIAB AG-

4kg Vienna
0.5kg Wheat
0.3kg Crystal

Both are brewing with US05 and are APA's so think American hops. Not sure if that's helpful at all for you...

[Finnagann]

I found the first link quite helpful when first doing partials. I never did a full BIAB but I think its pretty similar. The 2nd link is the same brewer doing a full batch, AG.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-pa ... ics-75231/
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-st ... ics-90132/

[billybushcook]

You don't need to use 3 expensive vessels for AG,
I have done several dozen AG's now with just a Keg for a kettle & a 50L esky for a mash tun.

At the end of the mash I just drain my sparge water (heated) out of the kettle & into 2 x 10L plastic jerry cans.
lift my mash up on top of the frame the kettle sits in, hang the sparge water cans from the roof of the shed & drain into the mash tun via hose.
So in fact I have a 4 tier system with just an esky, keg & 2 plastic drums?
& the esky is still an esky, to use it as a mash tun I just push a tight fitting aluminium tube through the drain bung, hose on the outside, strainer on the inside & a removable S/S mesh false floor. nothing glued or modified!

Mick.