Stuck fermentation with turbo yeast

[Gill]

Hey guys,
I have a brew fermenting based on coopers tin with malt extract and some fuggles in there.

We used a new yeast (turbo yeast or something) which came in a large 240g packet (dry). I pitched half the packet as an experiment into a 1L starter of about SG 1040 for 20 hours before pitching to our brew
brew OG was 1036
however fermentation stopped at 1020.

Why would this be? Underpitching?

The starter seemed to be working (though it was my first one) and the yeast managed to knock 16 points off. The temperature should be fine, 20-25C I think

I have pitched more yeast and I'm waiting to see how that goes

[earle]

Hi Gill

If you did a starter with 120g dry yeast I don't think underpitching is your issue. If its the turbo yeast that I'm thinking of its more suited to spirit makers who use it to rip through plain white sugar to make wash for distilling. It may have trouble fermenting the more complex sugars present in malt extract. I would also worry about the flavours that a turbo yeast would leave in a beer. I would suggest pitching a normal beer nrewing yeast if you want to get your FG down. (I would probably have a taste though to see what affect the turbo yeast has had on your flavour.)

[emnpaul]

Hi Gill,

I wonder if the sheer weight of yeast in your starter (120g to 1L is unheard of in my limited experience) could be affecting the gravity? I'd go with what Earl said and use a brewing yeast rather than the Turbo. However I'm curious what the resultant flavour would be, so if you do end up using Turbo let us know how it turns out.

Cheers
Paul

[jello]

G'day Gill,

Your OG seems a little low.
Also, you said it has stopped at 1020. How long has it been since you pitched the yeast?

240g seems like ane aweful lot of yeast. Even using only half of it.

[Gill]

Your OG seems a little low.

Well I'm brewing with a friend and he wasn't keen on a high ABV (God knows why), I think maybe he didn't realise how low it would be (I may have slightly exaggerated the strength of the last brew).
So yeah, low OG.

If its the turbo yeast that I'm thinking of its more suited to spirit makers who use it to rip through plain white sugar to make wash for distilling

The guy at the shop gave it to me, though I wasn't too confident with his knowledge on it..
It said on the sachet that it was suitable to pitch directly to 23L, I thought maybe it wasn't as concentrated or something..?
I was under the impression that you couldn't overpitch, though I'll admit it is odd to hold the yeast and actually feel weight =P

But 2 days in it reached 1020 and 4 days in it's still at that point

I pitched the other half of the sachet which had been sitting airtight in the coldest part of the fridge, would that still be viable? I'll check for activity this afternoon. If none, I still have the kit yeast. The local brewshop doesn't seem to have much choice in the way of yeast =(

[earle]

Definitely sounds like spirits yeast. Lots of HBS are friggin useless when it comes to brewing beer, they make most of there money out of spirits. This one sounds particularly bad if they're selling turbo yeast for beer. Please don't ask them for any more advice.

Get onto http://www.craftbrewer.com.au and check out their yeast selection and while you're at it get some good hops and maybe even some spec grain. I only buy kits and extract locally, everything else comes from craftbrewer. Freight is reasonable and you'll make it back with the savings and quality.

Spririt brewers use turbo yeast because they want to convert a metric shit load of sugar into alcohol in the minimum time without caring about the taste as much because they are going to distill it. The packet probably also contains yeast nutrient to help it do that. Brewing beer is the opposite, yeast contributes quite a bit to flavour so you want a good yeast at the right temp to give you a relatively slow ferment so as to not produce off flavours.

I'm actually a bit angry about the f-wit selling you that yeast. I wonder if they do it on purpose to turn you off home brewed beer and onto spirits so they can make more money. Aaaargh. Will have to have a brew or two when I get home to help me calm down

I would definitely pitch the kit yeast if you can't get a better beer yeast.

[Gill]

I wonder if they do it on purpose to turn you off home brewed beer and onto spirits so they can make more money. Aaaargh

Ha, judging by the look of this bloke he couldn't think far enough ahead for that cunning plan.

If I'm getting hops and grain, how long can I expect them to last? (Sorry, I know this is off topic from the thread)

Is it worth pitching that yeast even though I repitched the same yeast? Would two yeasts running wild in there be troublesome?

[earle]

Pitching another yeast is no problem. Its is a common method for when brewing a high ABV beer to do most of the fermentation and then pitch a champagne yeast to finish off the fermentation. Also some yeasts are sold as a blend. I suspect that the turbo yeast has done as much as it can and the kit yeast will take over anyway.

I store my yeast in the fridge and hops and grain in the freezer. If you buy from craftbrewer or other good suppliers the hops come in vac sealed foil pouches and the grain in heavy vac sealed plastic pouches. Make sure you order your grain precracked and people say its good for a few months if its airtight in the freezer, hops for longer though they can lose some of their bitterness over extended periods. I've stored grain for longer periods in the freezer with good results.

[Oliver]

Split from the My brew is not fermenting sticky.

Also, +1 to everything that has been said so far. Pitch the kit yeast and get yourself a new HB store!

Cheers,

Oliver

[Gill]

Alrighty, checked out craftbrewer and if I get some stuff, better make it worth the postage.

Quick question, the malts there, some say steep and some say mash required. What exactly does this mean?

[Oliver]

Hi Gilly,

The ones that say steep contain no starches that can be converted to sugars by mashing, so unless you're doing a mash to which you may as well add them you can just steep them.

These are grains such as black malt (and a variety of others), which can be steeped by themselves or added to a mash but will only impart flavour, aroma and taste, not any fermentables.

Then there are the grains such as crystal (aka caramel) malt, which has already undergone what amounts to a mash within the grain and will impart aroma, flavour, taste and some fermentables and non-fermentables (i.e. sweetness) if steeped. These, too, can be added to a mash as well if you're doing one anyway.

Those grains that require mashing need just that: to be mashed at 60-70 degrees for an hour or so so that the enzymes in the grain can convert the starches to sugars that can be consumed by the yeast and turned in to alcohol and CO2.

If you're interested in doing a mini-mash, see Trough Lolly's Partial Mash Instructions.

Hope this answers your question.

Cheers,

Oliver

EDIT: I am in the process of rewriting the entire main homebrewandbeer.com site and this will be one of the topics covered.

[Gill]

Okay, SG is still 1020

and it now looks like this:


suggestions? Is it contaminated?

[jello]

Well I don't know about contaminated, but it doesn't look right to me. How does it smell?

I'd be thoroughly pissed off with the guy at the HB shop, that's for sure.

Edit: Whatever happens, don't let this put you off brewing.

[Gill]

Well it sells sour, but so have all my brews. Nor does it taste any good really.
I'm currently leaning towards tipping it

Whatever happens, don't let this put you off brewing.

Don't worry, just means I have to make the next batch twice as good to make up for this one

[Oliver]

Yeah, looks odd to me. But perhaps it's the yeast. How does it taste?

In any case, make sure you put an extra big effort into cleaning all your gear after this one ... I'd do oxyper to clean it all, then sanitise now and before using it next time. Maybe even take apart your tap to make sure no nasties are lurking in there. I don't take apart the tap routinely but know that some do.

Oliver

EDIT: Sorry, just saw that you said it tasted no good. Does it taste off/infected no good or just not a good beer no good? (Hope you follow ... I've had a couple of pots of Mountain Goat!)

[Gill]

I'm unsure if its infected no good. I certainly didn't want any more of it, and almost spat it out. I've never found a beer that made me do that before.
But the recipe was a bit of an experiment, and I wasn't 100% sure what I was doing. For example, I didn't strain any of the hops out, and it may have been that..

I'm considering bottling half of it and trying it down the track. But that brings me back to the original problem, with an SG of 1020 (after 3 yeast pitchings), still is there an explosion risk?

EDIT: If it helps, it didn't taste sour. It was fine in my mouth (I was suspicious, so held off swallowing to sus it out). Once it hit the back of my throat though it was an odd, bad flavour

[jello]

If it tastes bad out of the fermenter, its not likely to get better in the bottle. What i'm hoping for when i taste it after fermentation is a decent beer that is flat

Leaving the teabag (hops) won't hurt it at all.

[emnpaul]

It's hard to be sure from the photo but it appears to have a white skin across the top of the beer. If it is a definite "skin" as opposed to a "head" of krausen then it could well be a staph infection. A sour, furry sort of taste on the back of your tongue would go some way to confirming this if your game for another try.

Have you been taking the lid/cling wrap off to check it every half hour, as is the temptation for new brewers. This is a bad thing to do and can lead to infections.

In any event, if it tastes so bad you don't want another sip then why not put it down to experience and chuck it? Then you can put your effort into making something that you'll enjoy.

Cheers
Paul

[jello]

Having done some googles, I'm certain it's infected and wouldn't bother bottling.

Have you been taking the lid/cling wrap off to check it every half hour, as is the temptation for new brewers. This is a bad thing to do and can lead to infections.

+1 Couldn't agree more. It's tempting to have a look, but just breathing on it is dangerous.

[Gill]

Tried to minimise opening it, but had to pitch the extra yeast so it was opened at least twice. Also, it was mixed up before pitching the yeast in an attempt to get oxygen through, that's probably what it was.
Yeah, it was definitely a film, it appeared to be solidified, because bubbles were coming out through the cracks.

Toss it is the concensus?