Lagering on the trub?

[big dave]

Howdy crew

For better or worse, I have ordered the bits and pieces for my next brew, and it will be a lager of sorts, using a Wyeast 2112 Californian Lager yeast.

I have a fairly basic idea of how lagers are turned out, but was wondering about the lagering itself. Most of what I have read indicates that I should warm the fermenter for a few days after the primary ferment is done, then drain it into a fresh container, and chill it for a couple of weeks before bottling.

I have a second fermenter and a cube that I use for no-chilling my ales, but I have never used it to rack into. All my ales get a 2-3 week primary and go straight to the bottle.

Can I leave the lager in the fermenter on the trub for this lagering stage?

[squirt in the turns]

I've lagered in primary before with no apparent ill effects. From memory, I was using WY 2278 (Czech Pils). Beer must have been in primary for 2 months or so, all up.

It might pay to do some more research on the 2112, as it doesn't appear to be a true lager strain. Wyeast's description says "This strain is not recommended for cold temperature fermentation", with a temperature range of 14-20° C. The purpose of lagering is to get the yeast doing things they don't do at higher temperatures, which leads to the clean character of a lager. True lager yeasts can continue to attenuate and actively condition the beer for extended periods of time. Warmer-fermenting yeasts (which it appears 2112 might be) will just go dormant and at lagering temperatures, and so do not really benefit from extended cold-conditioning.

[warra48]

California Lager yeast is a train developed to brew Steam Beers.

Link to a BeerSmith article about those beers: http://beersmith.com/blog/2008/06/11/st ... er-styles/
You will note it is a lager fermented at higher than normal temperatures between 60 to 65ºF (15 to 18ºC), and then cold conditioned at 50ºF (10ºC).

I personally wouldn't bother transferring to another container if you are only chilling for a couple of weeks.
The last time I brewed a Dusseldorf Alt, I brewed it with lager yeast at 10ºC for 3 weeks, and lagered it at 2ºC for 7 weeks. All done in primary, and bottled straight from primary. Carbed just fine, and is one of the clearest beers I've ever brewed.

[big dave]

Thanks fellas

Am feeling a little dark on the chap that recommended and sold me the yeast now.... I think I will use it and see what happens....

[drsmurto]

Leaving a beer in contact with the trub for extended periods of time is not a good idea. Yes, you will still get clear beer by doing this but the trub contains proteins, polyphenols, dead yeast cells and other unwanted compounds. These can, over time, react with other compounds in the beer resulting in unwanted characters in the finished beer.

In a commercial settling this is simpler as the fermenters are conical and trub can be discharged via a bottom valve.

In the homebrewing situation we rack the beer off the trub into another container.

For ales that only spend 2-4 weeks in primary, this is optional. For lagers this is a necessary part of the process.

I chill my beer down to 1°C before racking to compact the trub. There will still be yeast in suspension to clean the beer up during the lagering stage, absorb waste compounds and ferment the last of the sugars.