Where am I going wrong?

[emnpaul]

Guy's,
Where am I going wrong? I can't seem to get a decent beer at any less than 4 weeks in the bottle. (I've drank many an undecent beers). Green one's tend to leave an unhealthy result the next day.

Sounds like the yeast needing some extra time to clean up after itself. Do you have a ferment fridge or temperature control?

[morebeermark]

G'day Fella's,
My most recent brews have just been Thomas Coopers Traditional Draught with 1.5 kg can of light malt extract, starting the kit yeast in about 125 gms of LDME to about 750 mls of water for a day or so. Before that it's just been Coopers Real Ale with 1 kg of brew enhancer #2, casting the kit yeast dry. All along, summer, winter, always the same; less than two weeks it's undrinkable ( believe me, I'm not really fussy ). As you may have deduced, I have no temperature control but I've generally been able to keep it all between 18 deg and 24 deg using all the accepted methods ( even under the pool table in the lounge ). I've recently constructed a brewing cabinet using plans gleaned from this forum to convert a 450 ltr chest freezer with the intention of breaking into Lager brewing, but I've had to head back to work which interferes horribly with my creativity. Perhaps I can use the cabinet for better control of the secondary fermentation. One theory I have on my problem is that I always bottle as soon as fermentation stops because if I leave it much longer I get little bally white growths on the side of my fermenter. This happens every time no matter how much I clean and sanitize so I'm suspecting it's from my spring fed water supply, all be it well filtered.
I do have the luxury of being able to leave my brews unmolested for five weeks whilst I work away but I was just surprised to read that you blokes can get into an obviously acceptably product so soon. I've spent two or three days crook after convincing myself that my 'green' was ready to drink. Of course, it may have also had something to do with the volume consumed. I'm not alone in this view, a couple of my mates have suffered for the sake of continual improvement of my techniques and now bring their own if my stock of mature beer is running low.

[weizgei]

A few issues here Mark...firstly you're using kit yeast...and secondly you're doing a yeast starter with it. If you're going to use kit yeast (and I beg you to replace it with BRY-97 at $4 a pack), don't bother starting it off with DME and water, just use water. Dry yeast is not designed to be put into a starter. And really, Coopers themselves say the only benefit of re-hydrating (in water) is to kick of fermentation a little more quickly (http://www.coopers.com.au/the-brewers-g ... sts&t=1375).....you might as well save yourself the time and sprinkle it dry.

But I can't suggest strongly enough a switch to BRY-97 or US-05 in place of the kit stuff. You should end up with better beer, drinkable more quickly. Especially if you can keep the ferment temps around 18C.

[Pogierob]

What Weizgei said and, perhaps if you have the availability, pre boil the water you use, this should kill anything growing in it before brewing, boiling will remove existing oxygen so make sure you aerate the wort before pitching the yeast.
My rule no. 1 of brewing is - don't use kit yeast.
Kit yeast from what I have read on this forum can be boiled up and used as yeast nutrient. (Kill the yeast and turn it into food for the good yeast).

Also take into account that brewers are a proud bunch and a "green" beer sampler is considered a MUST although everyone knows its not really ready yet, a session on green beer shouldn't make you crook so I would put that down to the amount consumed.

[CrookedFingers]

Kit yeast is pretty much only good for making pretzels ! IMHO.
I use the recipe by Paul Mecurio.
Perfect to much on while brewing.
YUMMO !

[morebeermark]

G'day and Thanks Fella's,
It's unanimous, the kit yeast is going.
A recent purchase was a Coopers 'Mr Sinister' recipe pack and this was supplied with Saflager yeast so from here on in it'll never happen again. It'll also be my first experience with using grain so perhaps I'm finally getting fair dinkum about this home brew caper (after about 28 years ). I should have embraced the internet way sooner. Thanks Weizgei for the advice on the yeast types.
Pogierob, I've thought about taking my water from the hot tap the night before and cooling it in the fridge, do you think that would be hot enough to kill the wild yeast spores?
Thanks again,
This forum has given me heaps to ponder but home baked pretzels? Where do you get the time?

[weizgei]

Kit yeast for home baked pretzels...brilliant. Crooky you'd better save me some for next time we beer swap, ok?!

Mark, keep in mind that Saflager is true lager yeast, so it needs to be fermented between 12-15 degrees, and you'll need to do a diacetyl rest towards the end of fermentation....and then lager your beer for a while before drinking. All of our comments above about early/sneaky tastings relate to ales, not lagers...it's a whole different world!

Also I doubt cooled hot water will achieve the same result as boiling it...the water needs to reach boiling point in order to kill off all the nasties.

[CrookedFingers]

Eating pretzels and drinking hefeweizen right this moment.
Watching the mighty HAWKERS dismantle the collywobblecrybabies!

[morebeermark]

On the strength of that last post, it seems I've just walked into the wrong pub.

[CrookedFingers]

Oh I'm sorry.
My family are all collingwood supporters and love to rub it in when my hawks lose.
I got my own back last night !

Haha.

[Oliver]

Split off from How soon is soon enough for a little old sample.

CrookedFingers, perhaps you could post the pretzel recipe in the In the kitchen and at the table forum?

Cheers,

Oliver

[CrookedFingers]

will do !

[weizgei]

Oh and back on topic for a sec (can't help myself, Go Blues!), it's not all my beers that are ready to drink within a week or two. A IPA I bottled back on June 21, with 6.8% abv and 62 IBU, was "ok" within a couple of weeks, good after a month, but I just cracked one last night and I reckon it's one of the best beers I've ever brewed. Damn shame I only have half a dozen or so left!

It's becoming pretty obvious that the hoppier the beer, the longer it needs to come good. Whereas my hefe/dunkel beers seem to peak after about 10 days, and hardly change for the next 2 months.

[morebeermark]

Thanks for the heads up, Weizgei, seems you had a good weekend too.
I've been doing some more research and it's got me wondering about aerating the wort if I boil my water. I assume the oxygen available from the HBS is surgical oxygen but is it alright to give it a shot of oxy from my welding set? The diacetyl rest shouldn't be a problem with the 'u-beaut' brewing cabinet, but what is your advice on how long I should take to increase then decrease the temp? I've read it should be done slowly.

[Oliver]

Hi MBM,

Oxygen from an your oxy set will be fine. I was talking to a brewer the other day who specifically said this would be fine.

Your best bet would be to get an air stone and put the oxygen through that to dissipate it more effectively. But putting a hose straight in the wort should work, too. You'll just need to leave it in for longer. I have read in BYO magazine that using pure oxygen it is possible to over-oxygenate the wort.

The other technique you could think about is putting a paint stirrer on an electric drill and giving that a couple of minutes in the wort when you pitch the yeast.

It is not possible to over-oxygenate using this technique.

Cheers,

Oliver