Cidery taste

[Kingy]

Hey guys, just wanted to know if you could solve this problem: I'm using dextrose and/or malts in my recipies but still get a cidery taste in my beers, even after they've been left for months. Any ideas?

[Gough]

Could be a few different things but an all malt beer with a cidery taste is often due to too high a fermentation temperature. Keep your ferm. temps generally between 18-22 degrees for ales and 8-14 for genuine lager yeasts and you'll probably notice a difference.

Good luck,

Gough.

[Dogger Dan]

Yep, I am partial to the high temp especially if the dex is low.

No bag sugar either, sucrose is normally the culprit for the cidery taste as it is a disaccaride (one fructose and one dextrose molecule) rather than straight dextrose a simple monsaccaride.

I will say again though, clenliness.

Dogger

[Isaac]

Some people blame stale malt for the cidery taste - see if you can find a beer kit manufactured within a few months.

[Oliver]

Dogger Dan is spot on. If you're using cane sugar (i.e. white sugar like you put in coffee or tea), don't. This is often the cause of cidery tastes, due to the way the yeast breaks it down.

Use glucose/dextrose, or malt, or a combination, instead of the cane sugar and you should have a much better beer.

Also watch your fermentation temperatures.

Cheers,

Oliver

[Guest]

Dogger Dan is spot on. If you're using cane sugar (i.e. white sugar like you put in coffee or tea), don't. This is often the cause of cidery tastes, due to the way the yeast breaks it down. Use glucose/dextrose, or malt, or a combination, instead of the cane sugar and you should have a much better beer.

Also watch your fermentation temperatures.
Cheers,
Oliver

Sorry Oliver, but you're wrong mate ...Cane sugar IS NOT responsible for cidery tastes in homebrew - this is one of those great momilies about homebrewing. The cidery notes are due to the excessive use of sugars and adjuncts in a brew recipe and not enough malt extracts or grains in the beer - coupled with high temp fermentations, which was quite correct - your comments on temperatures are valid, but sucrose completely ferments out and does not impart cider notes to beer.

When I started brewing 10 years ago, I thought that sucrose was adding the cider notes to my beer, so I switched to dextrose and the same thing occurred, until it dawned on me that I was not using enough malt extract in the recipe - once I started to at LME and DME to the recipe the whole beer quality improved and I never looked back

Cheers,
TL

[Guest]

no, oliver is right.
cane sugar is sucrose. sucrose is an adjunct. high fermentation temps can cause undesired flavours or esters the be imparted on the beer, but 90% of the time it's sucrose to blame.

...sucrose is normally the culprit for the cidery taste as it is a disaccaride (one fructose and one dextrose molecule) rather than straight dextrose a simple monsaccaride.

it's at the molecular level dude
just using dextrose alone won't completely remove all traces of cideriness. it will just reduce it a fair bit. you have to use more malts to get rid of your watery cider flavours. sucrose and dextrose are just inexpensive alternatives to malt-based maltose and dextrins. ie adjuncts.

cheers
-wombat

[Oliver]

Chaps,

A passage from Home Brewing - the CAMRA Guide, by Graham Wheeler:

"Brewer's yeast cannot ferment sucrose (i.e. cane sugar) directly, so during fermentation it releases an enzyme called invertase which breaks down the molecular bonds and splits sucrose into its component parts, i.e. glucose, and fructose. Both glucose and fructose are easily fermentable by the yeast

"... Many brewers ... feel that invertase can be tasted, produces a harsh 'sugar tang', and causes disproportionate hangovers. Whether of not this is true is a matter of conjecture, but I believe it can.

The debate continues ...

Cheers,

Oliver

[king]

alright gentlemen,thankyou for all your valuble input,but it seems that using a powdered malt,or brew booster is the go.just tasted a blackberry /bavarian larger using malt in the mix then bulk primed with same malt ,2wks old -unreal!will get betteras gets older.