Racking Beer?

[Cookie]

What does this mean? I saw it mentioned as the first thing to do to improve your brew by Chris.

Please excuse my ignorance, but what do you mean?

[Kevnlis]

Racking involves transfer of the fermented beer to a secondary fermentor (a sanitary empty fermentor) to age for a while depending on the style etc. This is done by putting a hose over the tap and putting that into the bottom of the secondary fermentor in a coil shape so the beer whirlpools in gently allowing gravity to slowly move the beer.

[Cookie]

Thankyou. It just so happens I have an extra fermenter. Do you seal it agian with an airlock allowing release of C02? Or just seal it completely?

[timmy]

Depending on how long you leave it in the primary really.

If it's fermented out, you'll be pretty safe sealing it.

If you do rack, I find it beneficial to leave the beer in the secondary for a week then throw the lot into the fridge. This helps clear the beer and is handy if you're aiming for clarity, but it can also benefit the taste by dropping more of the nasties out of solution (tannins, excess proteins etc)

[SpillsMostOfIt]

Another contentious question!

Opinion is divided on whether or not to rack your beer to a second fermenter once the majority of the airlock action has subsided. I believe the death toll from this conversation currently stands at 37.

The primary reason for doing so seems to be that once the yeast have processed all the sugars, they go berserk and start attacking each other with machetes (autolysis) which leads to 'off-flavours' and lesser beer. There is an argument that says you will get clearer beer if you rack to a second fermenter (which is also sometimes erroneously called 'secondary fermentation'). In my opinion, if you are brewing ales and are doing so at temperatures that humans find comfortable when wearing clothing, you are actually better off if you don't. You need to experiment for yourself to decide what you want to do.

Every time you do something to your beer, you are potentially introducing oxygen and bugs, which can make your beer bad, so laziness is actually good.

[warra48]

I totally agree with spillsmostofit.
I personally see no benefit in racking ales, and regularly leave mine in the fermenter a minimum of two weeks before bottling. I have no problems in getting clear beers.
I rack lagers. but only so that I can lager them.
As to the dreaded and feared yeast autolysis, is there anyone on this forum who can honestly say they have ever experienced it by leaving a beer in the fermenter for a few weeks? I'll bet it's another one of those "theories" which is passed on as inevitable fact. That's not to deny it does exist, but in my view the risk of it within the homebrew time frames is so small as to be ignored for practical purposes.
I'm now ducking for cover and donning the flameproof suit.

[Kevnlis]

I will admit in all my years of brewing I have never had this happen. I have left ales at 20C+ for 3-4 weeks a few times...

[Trough Lolly]

I rack to secondary, but only when I can be bothered to do so - with my current procedures I'm getting reasonably clear beer and a filter makes the beer star bright in minutes. I've had yeast autolysis - in stubbys of lager yeast that I've had in the back of the fridge for 3+ years....pfwoar what a luvverly smell!

Cheers,
TL

[Chris]

I left a GB and porter on the yeast cake for 3 1/2 weeks. Both went on the lawn. And no, it wasn't a sanitation issue.

I also like racking as I don't necessarily always have time to bottle, and because it leads to a greater beer stability. And yes, I know howtobrew disagrees!

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I've got an austramerican pale ale fermenting at the moment which I brewed on the weekend and will be transferring to another fermenter. This is so I can use some of the yeast again on a bloddy big beer a couple of mates and I am brewing on the weekend - 100litres of 1.094 Scotch Ale. Figured I'd save a bit of cash on the yeast, although I only expect to be having to deal with a fifth of it.

[Boonie]

As to the dreaded and feared yeast autolysis, is there anyone on this forum who can honestly say they have ever experienced it by leaving a beer in the fermenter for a few weeks?

Me.

My last LCPA was awesomely great after 1 week out of fermenter. Left alone as I did not have time to rack and dry hop due to busy schedule.

Went back 1 week later and it was shite even though the FG was at 1009 after 1 week

No sanitation issues, white scum, mould, leaking fermenter, clean tap etc.....but it went off. It was sitting on 24 by the sticker thermometer in a very stable temp room, does not go up or down too much. It was summer, when we had some mild days . Winter much easier to brew.

Autolysis?, I thought it was as it tasted similar to a brew from a while back where I left it for weeks on end in my early brewing days.

Very debatable subject with no definitive answer............again

Cheers

Boonie

[SpillsMostOfIt]

This is where it would be really nice to know what it is that we (I) am tasting.

Is it autolysis or an infection? Oxygenation or hot break infiltration?

The sensory analysis education things are really expensive, but I think that it might be worth it so we can know what is wrong with our beer - if only we can find someone to pay for it all...

Boonie is probably right about what caused his beer to go erk, but wouldn't it be nice to actually *know* what went wrong rather than basing it on a hunch?

I freely admit that my ability to describe what I am tasting is basically crap. I might be able to convey chilli, chocolate or orange, but ask me to describe the difference between 1214 yeast and 1056 and I will probably mumble and reach for my beer a lot, because the sorts of things we are talking about are not common tastes like vanilla, gastric reflux or garlic.

[Boonie]

This is where it would be really nice to know what it is that we (I) am tasting.

Is it autolysis or an infection? Oxygenation or hot break infiltration?

The sensory analysis education things are really expensive, but I think that it might be worth it so we can know what is wrong with our beer - if only we can find someone to pay for it all...

Boonie is probably right about what caused his beer to go erk, but wouldn't it be nice to actually *know* what went wrong rather than basing it on a hunch?

I freely admit that my ability to describe what I am tasting is basically crap. I might be able to convey chilli, chocolate or orange, but ask me to describe the difference between 1214 yeast and 1056 and I will probably mumble and reach for my beer a lot, because the sorts of things we are talking about are not common tastes like vanilla, gastric reflux or garlic.

Agree, nice way of putting it.

I "hunched" that it was autolysis based on elimination rather than "Hey, that tastes like that autolysis I bought at coles last week", dead right Spills

Autolysis leaves a horrible pungent overpowering aroma with a tangy aftertaste. I have some bottled downstairs....when I taste it next I will get my mate over and we will best describe it.......it is not cloudy and smelling like rotten egg gas like when some of my yeast have died.... If you hold your nose, the autolysis beer tastes OK for the first second and then your tongue curls up and retreats to the back of your throat.

[Trough Lolly]

This is where it would be really nice to know what it is that we (I) am tasting.

Is it autolysis or an infection? Oxygenation or hot break infiltration?

The sensory analysis education things are really expensive, but I think that it might be worth it so we can know what is wrong with our beer - if only we can find someone to pay for it all...

Boonie is probably right about what caused his beer to go erk, but wouldn't it be nice to actually *know* what went wrong rather than basing it on a hunch?

I freely admit that my ability to describe what I am tasting is basically crap. I might be able to convey chilli, chocolate or orange, but ask me to describe the difference between 1214 yeast and 1056 and I will probably mumble and reach for my beer a lot, because the sorts of things we are talking about are not common tastes like vanilla, gastric reflux or garlic.

Totally agree SMOI - which is why our brewclub has regular tasting / education sessions to discover these delightful things!

Cheers,
TL

[Tipsy]

I believe that I have had it, although it should be noted that no one else had tried these stubbies and I've never tasted autolysis before.

The taste and odour was in between Bonox and Vegemite. I even held an open container of vegemite to my nose for a comparison.

As a side note, in this brew I had used dry enzyme and I have a feeling this could be partly to blame.
Also it didn't become noticable until after 6 months in the bottle.

[SpillsMostOfIt]

Also it didn't become noticable until after 6 months in the bottle.

How did you keep it in there for so long?

[Brewmasterspinney]

Another contentious question!

The primary reason for doing so seems to be that once the yeast have processed all the sugars, they go berserk and start attacking each other with machetes (autolysis) which leads to 'off-flavours' and lesser beer.
.

Yes you're right about the off-flavours but yeast autolysis is self destruction of the yeast not yeast attacking yeast. This is due to pressure applied on their outer cell walls. With enough time, pressure and pH put on the yeast the cell walls will deteriate and start to rupture. When the yeast autolysis or "self destruct" they release off-flavours and what they have absorbed within their systems. These off flavours can range from diacetyl to acetaldehyde which are completely different flavours. Diacetyl taste like butter like movie popcorn. They put diacetyl in movie butter for flavour. It is harmful in mass amounts but the amount in beer is not harmful however after one pint you will be sick of the taste and aroma if there is a lot. Acetaldehyde tastes and smells like fresh twigs, green apples, and sour notes. Just so no one is giving bad information.

[Brewmasterspinney]

Autolysis is not a flavor! Autoylsis is the act of self destructing yeast cells. Which rupture and expell the off flavours, tannins, and the converted garbage within their systems. Yeast are like people some things are harmful to us as well as yeast. When you get cut open you bleed exposing your insides and allowing blood in our case to flow out. Same idea but with off flavours and elements which the yeast have in their cell. When they rupture those bad flavours and chemical colonies come out too.

[HARMSY]

Just back onto the racking, once transferred into a second fermentor should it be kept at the same temp as it was during primary?? I'm about to get my larger in and wanna giv racking a crack to clear it up and improve it....

[bullfrog]

You can do a couple of things with it, Harmsy. Some people find that the SG will drop a few more points after racking, so they'll keep it at ferment temps for another week or so. Another thing you can do, which can be done after that extra week or so, if you have the fridge space, is crash chilling. This involves dropping the temperature down to as close to zero as you can, as quick as you can and leaving it there for s few days. This helps to floc a lot of yeast out of suspension, leaving you with a much clearer end product. Also, if you've used an actual lager yeast, then you may want to consider lagering which is essentially just leaving it in the fridge for a couple of extra weeks.