Coopers Lager with Saflager yeast

[Anna]

With the Sydney temperature getting so cold lately I've just put two Coopers kits on using Saflager S-23 instead of the yeast that came with the cans. One is coopers Draught and the other Coopers Lager. They will be fermenting (in the second bedroom) at about 10C (at night) to around 17C during the day. My question is - after bottling, what temperture should they be carbonated at? And for how long? Will I need to heat them?

[Thyraeus]

Hi Anna, I'm no expert, but I'd be concentrating on keeping that daytime temp as low (and as close to the night temp) as possible! 10-12 is perfect for that yeast, but I suspect 7 degs is quite a daily shift for that yeast.

As a lager, I would keep them at that low temp as long as possible once bottled.

Other here know far more than me... hope that helps.

[Anna]

Thanks Thyraeus. Daytime temps in western Sydney are now lucky to get to 14C and brews are bubbling away happily. As BH (the consumer) doesn't seem to be a connoisseur by any stretch of the imagination and I'm sure only worries about the alcohol content, I don't think I'll worry too much about a few degrees ! Anna

[Thyraeus]

I thinks it is hilarious how you brew (and care) he drinks (and apparently doesn't care too much!). Hope he knows what a lucky man he is?

[Anna]

ROFL!! Guess I'm just a sucker for good-looking blokes! (And brewing IS fun, eh?)

[squirt in the turns]

I know that temperature control is one of the core tenets of Home Brew 101, and that the answer to this question is likely to be largely subjective, but is there an "acceptable" level of temperature variation for a lager? Is lager yeast generally more susceptible to the stress this causes than ale yeast?

Although Anna is getting around 7 degrees variation in ambient temperature, I would guess that the liquid in the fermenters is much more stable. I have had a fermenter full of water on my balcony for a couple of weeks as an experiment in temperature, with the intention of brewing a lager outside. The sun never hits it, which I’m sure helps. I’ve been checking it first thing in the morning, when I assume it would be coldest (just before dawn if I’m surfing, or around 8 if I’ve had a brew or 2 the night before), and at around 6 in the evening. It’s been sitting around 14-16C without too much variation from morning to evening. Of course, last week there was a bit of a cold snap here on the Gold Coast.

I would be aiming for temps lower than I got so far anyway, and so would build some kind of polystyrene box covered with some kind of reflective material, chill the wort down to 10-12C in a big ice bath before taking it outside and covering it. Gaps would be carved into the insulation to allow for frozen bottles of water to be placed against the fermenter. I’m hoping that would allow me to maintain ideal temps and keep it stable. Is 10-12C the rule, or are there lager yeasts that work better at slightly higher temps? Has anyone else tried something like this? I’d really love to invest in proper temperature control (i.e. a fridge), but this is the best I can do right now.

[Planner]

Is 10-12C the rule, or are there lager yeasts that work better at slightly higher temps? Has anyone else tried something like this? I’d really love to invest in proper temperature control (i.e. a fridge), but this is the best I can do right now.

Most interested to hear answers on this. My fermenter sits in the garage and without temp control I can mainatain 10-12deg, but will occaisionally rise to 14deg on a warmer day. I can move it to anaother shed which will see lower temps, but also higher temps on the warmer days as this shed is not insulated. My preference is the garage as I can observe it easier as I walk past every time I enter or leave the house.

I have not yet tried a lager because I have no temp control. Any suggestions on a yeast that may cope with the odd 14deg day (maybe 2 days in 2 weeks).

[Anna]

Although Anna is getting around 7 degrees variation in ambient temperature, I would guess that the liquid in the fermenters is much more stable. I have had a fermenter full of water on my balcony for a couple of weeks as an experiment in temperature, with the intention of brewing a lager outside. The sun never hits it, which I’m sure helps. I’ve been checking it first thing in the morning, when I assume it would be coldest (just before dawn if I’m surfing, or around 8 if I’ve had a brew or 2 the night before), and at around 6 in the evening. It’s been sitting around 14-16C without too much variation from morning to evening.

You're spot on here about the variation being in the ambient temperature. I had overlooked that, and I've noticed that since the lagers have been brewing (four days now) the temp. on the actual fermenters has not shifted from 14C, even though the ambient temp. in the room fluctuates a lot. They are bubbling away nicely and giving off that (apparently) good nasty gas, so I'm not going to worry any more about trying to get the temp. any lower. I think the real test will be trying to keep the temp. constant while they are carbonating.

[Thyraeus]

A wise Wassa once told me that whilst 10-12 is ideal, the S23, it will take temps up to 18 degrees.

[Tipsy]

ROFL!! Guess I'm just a sucker for good-looking blokes! (And brewing IS fun, eh?)

You can come around and brew my beer, as you can see from my avatar I am quite the catch..


...on second thoughts don't worry, like brewing nearly as much as drinking

[billybushcook]

I would be aiming for temps lower than I got so far anyway, and so would build some kind of polystyrene box covered with some kind of reflective material, chill the wort down to 10-12C in a big ice bath before taking it outside and covering it. Gaps would be carved into the insulation to allow for frozen bottles of water to be placed against the fermenter. I’m hoping that would allow me to maintain ideal temps and keep it stable.

Do yourself a favour & get a "Tempmate" from Ross @ Craftbrewer, best 74 bucks I ever spent!!!!!

We get temps from 0 at night in winter up to 40+ in summer here & all I have to do now is dial in the temp I want on the digital display & forget it, day or night, Summer or winter, it will keep my brew box at whatever temp I set it to!!

Cheers, Mick.

[Trough Lolly]

Is 10-12C the rule, or are there lager yeasts that work better at slightly higher temps? Has anyone else tried something like this? I’d really love to invest in proper temperature control (i.e. a fridge), but this is the best I can do right now.

Most interested to hear answers on this. My fermenter sits in the garage and without temp control I can mainatain 10-12deg, but will occaisionally rise to 14deg on a warmer day. I can move it to anaother shed which will see lower temps, but also higher temps on the warmer days as this shed is not insulated. My preference is the garage as I can observe it easier as I walk past every time I enter or leave the house.

I have not yet tried a lager because I have no temp control. Any suggestions on a yeast that may cope with the odd 14deg day (maybe 2 days in 2 weeks).

G'day all,
True lager yeast (sacch. uvarum (carlsbergensis)) is a bottom fermenting yeast that will ferment at a very wide range of fermentation temperatures. To get the true flavour profiles from this yeast, without all the unpleasant and undesireable side flavours, you are best to ferment the wort with this yeast in a 10 to 12 degrees C range. You can ferment wort with this yeast at 24C if you don't mind all the fusel oils and estery notes that the yeast will invariably generate at this temperature. 14C will do a fairly good job but to get a clean crisp lager, you should follow Mick's advice and use a temperature controller if you really want to take full control of you lager fermentation temps. It's money well spent and you ensure that you are giving the yeast its best chance at fermenting your precious wort in the best way possible.

There are lager yeast strains that allow you to cleanly ferment at room temps. The most commonly known strain is the San Francisco lager yeast strain (Wyeast 2112 or White Labs WLP 810). I really like this strain as it gives nice clean malty flavour profiles at 16 to 18C and I haven't met anyone yet who doesn't enjoy a cold steam beer!

Cheers,
TL

[guzzle]

i haven't used the saflager yeast yet, just the stuff that comes with the tin. i have the fermenter in a back room with a slow combustion wood heater and my temp maintains a consistent 24c. i am now a bit worried this may be too high for the lagers. any thoughts? they seem to go fine but i haven't tried one yet

[guzzle]

After further reading on this forum i have answered my own question. I just feel like a bit of a dick now

[wrighty]

+1 at least you now have the info and that what this place is all about.
Largers can be a bit of a challenge to get right .

[Anna]

Ooops - problem! I said last week my Saflager S-23 lagers were bubbling away nicely, but now one has stopped (at 1.02) after 10 days, whilst the other is at 1.02 but still bubbling. Temps have been around 16-18C the whole time. I gave the stalled one a bit of a shake, but still no go. Wonder if I should (a) warm it up a bit, or (b) pitch more yeast?

BTW - thanks for all the advice guys. Might have the invest a bit more money in a temp. controller I think.

Anna

[Planner]

Do yourself a favour & get a "Tempmate" from Ross @ Craftbrewer, best 74 bucks I ever spent!!!!!

We get temps from 0 at night in winter up to 40+ in summer here & all I have to do now is dial in the temp I want on the digital display & forget it, day or night, Summer or winter, it will keep my brew box at whatever temp I set it to!!

Cheers, Mick.

14C will do a fairly good job but to get a clean crisp lager, you should follow Mick's advice and use a temperature controller if you really want to take full control of you lager fermentation temps. It's money well spent and you ensure that you are giving the yeast its best chance at fermenting your precious wort in the best way possible.

Cheers,
TL

Thanks TL and Mick, not yet ready to commit money and space for additional fermentation fridge with temp controller. I have purchased a heat pad today and will concentrate on ales for now.

Planner

[tazman67]

S23 is a pretty forgivable yeast, can handle temperature flucuations. Just remember to use TWO packets of yeast.

[billybushcook]

S23 is a pretty forgivable yeast, can handle temperature flucuations. Just remember to use TWO packets of yeast.

Iv'e been using one, but, I re-hydrate it @ 20 deg a few hrs before hand & earate the sh%t out of it while stepping up the volume every hr or so, then pitch @ 20. Seems to be working OK for me, only had one that stalled (a K&K) & once warmed up to 16 or so, away it went again,

Even the pack recomends pitching one @ 20.

Cheers, Mick.

[emnpaul]

Digging up an old thread here.

I've had a couple of packs of S23 sitting in the back of my fridge for the last 18 months or so. They've been stored pretty well so I think they'll still be viable, but in deciding whether or not to use them it occurred to me, does anyone still use this $#!%? I can't think of a recent thread where any body used it.

The last and only time I tried it was in my pre-temp control days and it was a sulphury turd of a yeast. Now, with what I've learned and the equipment I've since gotten my hands on I'm pretty confident I can get the best out of it, as per the advice in the thread above.

But is it worth it? Should I just stop being such a scrooge and get a decent liquid or some 34/70 at least?