Big "brewed under licence" article (and taste test)

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Big "brewed under licence" article (and taste test)

Postby Oliver » Saturday Feb 19, 2011 9:21 am

Guys,

Interesting article in today's Weekend Australian:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/fe ... 6006911607

and the taste test, which reflects what most of us believe:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/fe ... 6006934415

Good to see that this issue is finally getting some mainstream coverage and that Choice is on board.

Disappointing that retailers, including Dan Murphy's, continue to be part of the problem (or is it a conspiracy? :) )

Cheers,

Oliver
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Re: Big "brewed under licence" article (and taste test)

Postby tclarke » Sunday Feb 27, 2011 10:09 am

I suggest we all write in to:-

• online retailers and supply sites (eg boozle.com) and ask them to identify if the beers advertised /identified are BUL (brewed under licence) or BCO (brewed in country of origin)

• the overseas companies that are selling the licences for brewing locally, to warn them that they are ruining their market and that we want BCO not BUL

• the ACCC on the basis that the marketing and pricing of BUL beers is generally misleading and deceptive in breach of the Competition and Consumer Act (the new name for the Trade Practices Act).

The ACCC has an online complaint form (although it has a word limit). I said my complaint was about 'beer marketing and pricing' and the persons about whom I was complaining were ‘various’.

My argument was that generally BUL beers are marketed AND PRICED as if they are BCO beers (when the two are in reality DIFFERENT PRODUCTS) as follows:

1. Their labels bear similar designs to those of the BCO beers they replace and only by reading the back of the label very carefully can one find that they are not in fact BCO.

2. BUL beers are found in the ‘imported’ beer section of major stores and in the ‘imported beer’ section of restaurant menus. Pubs and clubs regularly market BUL beers as if they are BCO. Only rare liquor outlets or restaurants have the integrity to classify BUL and BCO beers correctly under their real country of origin.

3. BUL beers are priced similarly to BCO imports, and sometimes are even more expensive than BCO beer. This also misleads consumers into believing they are paying for imported beer. If BUL beers were much cheaper than BCO beer, consumers would be more aware that they were buying a different product.

Both the marketing and pricing work together to mislead.

Suggested solutions: ACCC should:

• require clearer product labelling– either the label should clearly state on the FRONT of the label that the beer is made in Australia, or the label should not be so similar to the BOC product that the BUL version can be visually confused with the ‘original.’

• enforce correct description/categorisation of BUL beers in retail outlets, pubs, clubs and restaurants and prosecute if necessary

• require TV/print ads to make it clear whether they are about BUL or BCO – or if the ad is about both/ the brand, whether you can buy BUL or BCO or both under that brand.

It's like the car ads which say that the ad pictures an imported model. The advertisers make that disclosure because they don't want to be in breach of the consumer legislation. I look forward to when we have the same level of disclosure for beer. ('Picture shows imported Peroni')!
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Re: Big "brewed under licence" article (and taste test)

Postby Oliver » Sunday Feb 27, 2011 4:56 pm

Hello, tclarke, and welcome. Here's some further reading that may be of interest to you:

"Falsies" on hotel beer list
Beer fraud - letter to the ACCC
Peroni now BUL

The whole BUL question is certainly one that stirs the passions.

Cheers,

Oliver
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Re: Big "brewed under licence" article (and taste test)

Postby Fifey » Wednesday Apr 06, 2011 10:37 am

My otherwise converted mate still thinks the BULshit tastes good. He was quiet after I said that they taste a lot worse and that he might as well grab a box of SuperDry, but whether that represented something of a correction or he just wanted me to shut up I don't know. I'll get him in the end though, dammit!
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Re: Big "brewed under licence" article (and taste test)

Postby Oliver » Wednesday Apr 27, 2011 11:53 am

A mate of mine is a manager at CCA, which part-owns Pacific Beverages, which BULs (or is it BsUL?) Peroni.

We had a rather animated conversation about the whole BUL issue the other day.

His argument is that it's got to taste as good or better because (a) it hasn't been transported from the other side of the world in hot shipping containers; and (b) Peroni sends its brewers out here to make sure it tastes right and why would they sign off if they weren't happy.

My argument: They sign off because there's money in it for them and the Italian-sourced beer is demonstrably better than the BUL stuff, and it's not just me saying it.

in the end we agreed to disagree.

Oliver

PS I was at Scusami Italian restaurant in Melbourne the other day and was offered a Peroni. I said I'd have it as long as it was the Italian-brewed one, not the BUL stuff. The waiter clearly had no idea that Peroni was now BUL, and looked at me strangely and said that of course it was brewed in Italy, because it was Peroni. Turns out he was right, but it just goes to show the ignorance out there about the whole issue.
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Re: Big "brewed under licence" article (and taste test)

Postby Oliver » Sunday Jun 12, 2011 10:40 pm

A mate came over tonight and arrived with a sixer of BUL Kronenbourg 1664. I had one, and "disgusting" is the word that most readily springs to mind. Seriously, it tasted like Tooheys New. But worse.

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Re: Big "brewed under licence" article (and taste test)

Postby faithinbeer » Tuesday Jul 26, 2011 9:08 pm


Hi

I did a complaint to fair trading a few months back about my local Woolworths substituting an inferior local product for quality import (Peroni) with no price reduction. the latest correspondence from them (copied below) seems to indicate breach of law on woolworths behalf, But the tone has a hollow ring


I refer to the information lodged with NSW Fair Trading by you regarding the alleged substitution of an inferior Australian product for a quality imported product and your recent telephone contact with Fair Trading regarding this matter.

The issues you raised will now be assessed to determine what compliance action should be taken.

NSW Fair Trading generally does not disclose information that is part of investigative and compliance activities. This policy aims to maintain the integrity of law enforcement activities and protect the reputation of those who may be the target of unsubstantiated allegations.
NSW Fair Trading will retain the information you provided in the complaints management database used to monitor marketplace trends and practices. These records also assist with the development of consumer protection strategies.

I think they have breached this bit of the fair trade act :Country of origin claims;Change in country of representation – Substantial transformation
This means the product undergoes a fundamental change in the country represented. The changes can be to the product’s appearance, operation or purpose.[i]



I don't know if that represents a serious breach of this act.

Considering some of the Peroni advertisements still consist of a poster with a peroni beer bottle and just italy written underneath, this has got to be deceptive advertising ? Ive taken to going in to bottle shops asking for peroni then making a big fuss about how its not made in italy and you would be surprised how hard the sellers argue it is made in italy even when faced with the irrefutable proof on the bottle (which may point to an industry cover up)

the reality is more than half the people out there ordering a peroni ,think that its still made in italy, and probably would not be buying it if they knew the truth.
cheers
FIB
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Re: Big "brewed under licence" article (and taste test)

Postby Oliver » Wednesday Jul 27, 2011 10:05 am

Hi and welcome, faithinbeer.

faithinbeer wrote:Considering some of the Peroni advertisements still consist of a poster with a peroni beer bottle and just italy written underneath, this has got to be deceptive advertising?

You'd reckon, wouldn't you.

faithinbeer wrote:the reality is more than half the people out there ordering a peroni ,think that its still made in italy, and probably would not be buying it if they knew the truth.


Can't argue with that.

I just checked out Peroni's Australian site and the site description (which you can see if you do a Google search or right-click on the home page and choose "View source") says "Brewed in Italy to the original recipe since 1963." Surely deceptive. Of course, it's not untrue, but it must be designed to deceive drinkers into believing that it's the only place it's brewed and that what you're buying in Australia is brewed in Italy.

As well, they're still misleading consumers to believe that Peroni Nastro Azzuro is made in Italy, with statements in videos from the brewer (remember that this is on the Australian site) about how much they export around the world, closely followed by him saying they're "kicking goals ... in Australia".

In the "Making Peroni" video he says "we own a maltery which is no more than 30km distance from where the brewery is located because we want to make 100% sure that we select the best [mumble] available for making a lager beer".

You can see the videos by going to this page then clicking on "A zest for beer" in the "More Peroni" menu.

Cheers,

Oliver
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Re: Big "brewed under licence" article (and taste test)

Postby lmw_13 » Monday Dec 05, 2011 2:26 pm

I think it's disgraceful how big breweries are allowed to brew european brand beer in Australia under licence. The beers brewed under licence taste nothing like there european counterparts, the brewed under licence beers seem to have a metallic and very yeasty after taste and practically taste like hahn premium or crown, where as the european brewed beers have a lot more of a fruity/honey taste, a creamier head, are more supple, have a longer finish, and taste 'european'. The thing that really makes me angry is when you pose the question to representatives of the brands (Heineken, Stella etc.) and the Australian suppliers/brewers (Fosters, Lion Nathan), they go on about the tests they do and how they put minerals in the water to make the beers taste exactly the same. When you tell them that they don't taste the same (in fact they taste nothing alike) they go on about how it takes 12 weeks for the european brewed beer to get to Australia and that i probably prefer the taste of older beer. That is the biggest load of B.S i have ever heard. Maybe we should get a case of bul heineken, send it on a ship half way around the world, and see if it tasts european. I don't think so! How dare they have a go at the consumer! Even if the beers did taste exactly the same, it doesn't make what they do right. It would be against the law to do this with wine so why is it ok to do it with beer. Surely they are falsely advertising the products with slogans like "germanys no.1 bier". So we can all agree that what they are doing is morally and ethically wrong, but is it illegal? Obviously it's not, if it was they wouldn't be doing it. So what is the next step. How can we make what they are doing illegal? Do we need to start a petition? I just can't believe brands like Becks, Stella, Heineken and Grolsch would let there brand names be damaged by an inferior products. Buying beer is now a mine field, we have to look at the fine print to know what we are really purchasing.
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Re: Big "brewed under licence" article (and taste test)

Postby lob » Monday Dec 05, 2011 2:49 pm

lmw_13 wrote:So what is the next step. How can we make what they are doing illegal?


I reckon Gruen Planet. Go to their abc website, click on Tip Offs, post and make links back to this and the ACCC thread. Once this scam (not to mention all the fake regional microbrewery beers) is properly exposed in the media [to date there has only been scant attention] these asswipes will be dead in the water.

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/gruenplanet/

Or, if you're on Facebook:

http://www.facebook.com/gruenhq
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Re: Big "brewed under licence" article (and taste test)

Postby earle » Monday Dec 05, 2011 3:06 pm

Its definitely all about marketing. A lot of consumers don't care if it is BUL, and would prefer that any BUL packaging information be kept as small as possible. What they care about is the label on the bottle, if the contents taste like hahn or crown then all the better. If it costs a bit more than the local drop thats ok as well so others can see them drinking a more expensive beer. That's why the overseas brewers allow their product to be BUL even if inferior, $$$$$. Drinkers who don't know any better or care are happy to part with $$$, breweries are happy to take the $$$$ of them. Since when did taste come into it?

While we're back on this the way beer lists in restaurants perpetuates this also annoys me. The BUL beers still appear in the imported section and you're none the wiser until it hits the table.
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Re: Big "brewed under licence" article (and taste test)

Postby Oliver » Thursday Dec 08, 2011 11:56 am

+1 to absolutely everything Earle said above. It sums up the situation nicely.

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Re: Big "brewed under licence" article (and taste test)

Postby lob » Thursday Dec 08, 2011 5:03 pm

Two things that piss me off more than anything else, and no, despite my rantings, BUL is a distant third. No, it isn't so much that they deceptively sell BUL beer, it's (i) the BS price structure. I was at the Kingston Hotel in Canberra the other night. (Fricken xmas/end of year thingy.) Carlton Draught etc cheap; Coopers Pale $6, Fat Yak $6.90; Not sure about BUL Peroni on tap 'cause I never bought it when I bought a round, but I'm guessing $7.50. There's sexism built into this price structure also. Watch a group of girls go to the bar and see how much they pay for the beers they typically drink...compare that to a group of blokes welded onto Carlton/VB/New etc. BUL Peroni costs no more to mass produce (brew?) than Carlton Draught. And a six pack of Coopers in most bottle stores is similarly priced to VB etc. We are, without doubt, the rip off capital of the world. (ii) The pathetic lack of choice/range. I'm drinking Kirkland (Costcos Homebrand) IPA right now. Even though this is cheap at $12.50 a six pack, I would have killed for a bottle of this the other night...or indeed anything different, out of the ordinary. It's the same old same old same old same old same old same old etc etc etc etc etc everywhere you go. Same pathetic range of cheap piss for working class blokes, more expensive Coopers (if indeed you can find it) and expensive BUL sh**. In the States you can buy Bud and a Pale from some small brewery or a wheat beer like Shock Top or Blue Moon (widely drunk by female beer drinkers) and they're about the same price. There's too much competition in the US for them to start this BS ripoff price structure you see in Australia.

(Yeah, Earl, there were some real posers drinking Peroni ITALY in the silly tall frosted glass the other night. I'm not sure if they know it's brewed in Sydney, but yeah they probably wouldn't care....it's all about image. - There's lots of Peroni ITALY ads flashing on the sydney morning herald website at the moment btw.)
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Re: Big "brewed under licence" article (and taste test)

Postby faithinbeer » Thursday Dec 22, 2011 8:26 pm

Was at my local Dan murphys today I noticed Australian made peroni in the imported section of their store, so i brought this to the attention of three separate staff members and not only did they all admit knowledge of the placement of the offending beers in the wrong section but all agreed with me that it was deceptive conduct but they were powerless to rectify it because it is store policy !

I believe this reveals a deliberate plan by dan to hoodwink the (non-discerning)piss drinking public of Australia in to paying higher prices for a low quality swill !

if a little man attempted this scam they would crack down on him.

if a case cost 30 to 35 bucks and had Australian made written on it and was in the Aussie made section of the store, there would not be a problem.

Its not the same product, its not imported, the packaging is deliberately deceptive, Its a blatant ripoff ..........WTF !

I made a complaint to the accc.. the woman said..... i drink peroni.... ill put a red flag next to your complaint!

another thing is rising its head, notice how the liquor store worker always tries to allay your fears by offering tips on how to spot the real import ? usually these are wrong or weird was of deciphering the packaging, a 9 on the end of the bar code for example ? could this ripoff in its self be a marketing ploy ? lots of discussion about the good and the bad how to spot em ect, and inevitable Oh look at me ! i hunted high and low for these real peroni !

a self promoting scam with good profit ! and here's me thinking, our Dan (and his cohorts) were going into bat for the struggling Aussie alco!

the season to ye

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