Beer fraud - letter to ACCC

[Flippo]

What happens when you complain, you're either going to complain to the waiter who "just works there" or maybe the manager, who will both more than likely label you a snooty nosed so and so and treat your complaint with as much respect as a piece of chewing gum on their shoe. Complaint stops there. You can go to the ACCC but are they going to go round to every single restaurant, check if they are selling locally brewed under licence beer as imported beer and then give them a slap on the wrist and tell them not to do it anymore? I know how much notice they'll take of the snooty nosed so and so inspector!

I'm not saying don't complain, I just find it hard to see where it's going to go. Sure you can vote with your feet but for every one beer fan out there who knows they are being duped, there's ten wankers who will quite happily pay inflated prices for an inferior product just so they can look all rich and important and impress the other wankers around them.

Anyways, sorry, it's just the "glass half empty" side of my personality coming out.

[Trough Lolly]

Firstly, let me put it on record that I totally disagree with foreign labelled beer that's made in Australia being classified as imported beer - clearly it is not...Perhaps they get away with it as beer made from imported goods?

But I have a question - If I sold beer at my brewpub made from Marris Otter, English Kent Goldings hops and fermented with 1028 London Ale yeast, is that an "imported beer" too?

Cheers,
TL

[Kevnlis]

Depends on where the water you used to make the beer came from and who had pissed in it I believe...

I do not think they could get away with using imported ingredients as justification for selling BULshit as an import.

[Flippo]

If you were fair dinkum Trough Lolly and wanted to charge more because they were/are imported ingredients then you could label it "locally brewed with imported ingredients" or "brewed in the style of [insert beer name/type here] with imported ingredients, something like that. You could maybe put some fluff in the description about the ingredients being authentic/imported from wherever, list the actual ingredients so that the drinker knows what they are getting etc etc. This shit about brewing it here and charging like it's come from over there is definately wrong though, it would be great to see the ACCC do something about it

[Trough Lolly]

I agree with you Flippo - that's what I should do. So what does the law require these locally brewed beers put on their labels? I suspect that there's a guilty silence happening since everyone benefits from the sales and tax revenue that's raised.

The best way to move the market is to buy alternative products - that's how so-called boutique beers are making inroads on the VB and Fosters camps...

Cheers,
TL

[Geoff]

And here's another thing: is it just me, or does BUL Stella these days taste more like a hopped-up Carlton Draught than the Belgian classic I remember from years past?

[gregb]

I agree that there is a misrepresentation in describing a beer brewed locally under licence as imported.

I think, however that the underlying issue is with an Australian cultural cringe; if it's imported it must be better. The marketing departments are merely responding to that.

So, should we as the beer cognoscenti, work to educate anyone who'll take the time to listen, or let the philistines be?

Cheers,
Greg

[Flippo]

I'd definately take the time to educate somebody who was willing to listen, but there is people who will always buy Crownies to try and elevate themselves an extra rung or two further than they should be on the social ladder. Some people will have their pre concieved ideas about beer and will never change, for example, me and a bloke I once knew were at a bottleshop buying some beer for a party, I got Coopers, he grabbed Crownies. I'd given him a taste of some real beer a few times to mixed reactions, some he liked some he didn't. I casually commented that he should try something different, I suggested something from a smaller brewery that I knew he liked, "Nah, it's just easier to get these" he said.....WTF??? How is it easier to pick up one carton instead of the other?

Anyway, my point is, some people you will never change and that's why these arsehole megaswill breweries will always make money on their BUL products. I don't buy them, never really did, but have argued for quite some time that the price is unjustified for a locally brewed beer and will continue to tell everyone that I see drinking the stuff that they are being shit on amd taken for a mug.

[Trough Lolly]

((snip))...
So, should we as the beer cognoscenti, work to educate anyone who'll take the time to listen, or let the philistines be?

Cheers,
Greg

....depends on who you are. If you're a brewpub owner, education and awareness is a key ingredient to your bottom line profit. If I'm a brewer making beer for personal consumption, who cares if the clowns at the local boozer continue to drink swill?
I guess the good news is the continuing rise in sales of boutique beer - people must be getting sick of drinking VB and Carlton etc. In fact it was that very reason that made me buy a homebrew kit back in 1995...

Cheers,
Rowan

[Trough Lolly]

I'd definately take the time to educate somebody who was willing to listen, but there is people who will always buy Crownies to try and elevate themselves an extra rung or two further than they should be on the social ladder. Some people will have their pre concieved ideas about beer and will never change, for example, me and a bloke I once knew were at a bottleshop buying some beer for a party, I got Coopers, he grabbed Crownies. I'd given him a taste of some real beer a few times to mixed reactions, some he liked some he didn't. I casually commented that he should try something different, I suggested something from a smaller brewery that I knew he liked, "Nah, it's just easier to get these" he said.....WTF??? How is it easier to pick up one carton instead of the other?

Anyway, my point is, some people you will never change and that's why these arsehole megaswill breweries will always make money on their BUL products. I don't buy them, never really did, but have argued for quite some time that the price is unjustified for a locally brewed beer and will continue to tell everyone that I see drinking the stuff that they are being shit on amd taken for a mug.

I agree with you in general but at least the w@nkers who buy crown to impress other equally uninformed drinkers are possibly starting down a road that's leading them away from the crap megabeer that they were given a glass of by their dad's when they were kids. The other thing is that to the rank and file, their perception and knowledge of beer is only marginally greater than their understanding of wine - to many it's just simply easier for them to look for and grab the same coloured case that they're used to seeing. And is it just me or is it a strange coincidence that the walls of stacked cases of VB etc are in one area of most bottlo's and way off to the side, near the wine racks, are the six packs etc of the non-mainstream yet much better tasting beers? I noticed that my local bottlo had recently stacked discount cases of Coopers Pale and Sparkling hard alongside the VB and Carlton Draught swill in the middle of the beer section and I applaud him for that....

Cheers,
TL

[Richo68]

people must be getting sick of drinking VB and Carlton etc. In fact it was that very reason that made me buy a homebrew kit back in 1995...

Ditto...

[warra48]

Education can be a long and slow process.
I think many Australians are slowly coming to the realisiation there is more to beer than the megaswill products. That is one of the reasons the local microbrewers ranks are swelling. Their products are reported on in the press, for example, from time to time, in the Good Living Guide in the SMH on Tuesdays etc. It is also, I think, a reason for the swelling ranks of home brewers making quality products for their own consumption.
The process with beer is probably 2 or 3 decades behind the same journey the wine fraternity started on in the late 60''s and early 70's. They have travelled a long way from the sparkling porphyry pearl, sweet sherry, sweet port, and moselle days. There is now a fairly wide knowledge and discernment about wine styles, grapes varieties etc.
I think the beer fraternity has started on the same journey. Give it another decade, and I think there will be many more discerning beer drinkers looking for quality products.
That won't eliminate the megaswill consumers, after all, there is still a lake of wine sold in bag in the box, but I think we are making progress.
Once people become more discerning and knowledgable, it will be more difficult for brewers to pass off locally brewed products as imported.

[Trough Lolly]

Totally agree Warra48 and I hope your observations are true! Oh, those days of taking a bottle of spatlese lexia to the party are a distant memory!!

On a related note, and I don't know whether it's coincidence, but I bought two bottles of BUL Guinness at Woolies yesterday - I cracked one this evening (admittedly after drinking a pint of my ESB) and to be honest, the bottled stout is absolute shite!! Now, trust me, I enjoy a stout but if I was judging this swill at the comp, it would have been very poorly scored - there's not grain profile, it's high in phenols and to be honest, it tastes strongly of sanitiser.....What tha'?

[Oliver]

I had dinner at Dish in the Royce Hotel on St Kilda Road, Melbourne, last night.

There under the heading of "Imported beer" was Stella Artois. So I asked the waiter whether it really was imported or was brewed locally. He assured me that it was imported. I double-checked and he was adamant that it was imported.

However, when another waiter came to take our drinks order I asked him if it was imported or locally brewed and he said "Good question ... it's locally brewed", to which the missus said "but it's under the heading 'Imported beer' ", to which he had no argument. Given it was not imported, I decided against having one and had wine instead. (For such a fine-dining establishment, the beer list is woeful, in fact among the worst I've seen. Anywhere.)

The other troubling aspect of the beer list was the spelling of lager as "larger".

All in all, the night was a very unsatisfactory beer experience.

Cheers,

Oliver

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I remember someone saying that everything you read in the paper is absolute gospel truth, except for those things of which you have intimate personal knowledge.

There is an element of that in this discussion. I agree with much of what has been written here, but consider the above statement in the context of beer (easy, because there are three pages of discussion preceding this post), food (not too huge a stretch) or anything else you shell out your hard-earned for.

You hear people who work in the food industry (at many levels) say that if you knew how 'X' was made, you wouldn't eat it, let alone pay for it. You hear others who make furniture, cars, electric kettles, etc relate that they don't live up to some expectation of quality or wotnot. You hear master-craftsmen or committed amateurs comparing what they make with what is usually purchased by your average joe.

It's all true. And yet, it is also all false.

I used to think my mum was the world's greatest cook. She used to make the most amazing roast meat and vegetables. Then I started cooking myself and decided that she was a hack. So are all my aunts, grandparents, childhood friends' mothers, etc... My father used to build sheds and extensions and things for our houses. Master Craftsmen (by accountant standards). I wouldn't let him pass me tools nowadays.

I reckon that the majority of us probably reckon the imported beers taste better than their BUL counterparts. There is a logical argument that says that is unlikely. Beer in bottles sitting on ships, sitting on docks, sitting in tin shed warehouses - not the ideal treatment. Not for months on end.

I've had an employee of one of the evil megabreweries (can't say which) sit in my loungeroom and tell me about the tasting panels his employer has, and what they must then do in addition to that to maintain their license to brew Stella Artois (oops!). It all made sense to me, because if *I* owned a world-famous brand, I would want to ensure my investment in it did not degrade because some tight-arse brewery decided to save some cash on the beer they slapped my label on. It makes no business sense whatsoever to allow Barry's Brewery to make *my* beer in a way *I* am not happy with.

I reckon brewing under license is A Good Thing. Shipping beer around the world, using quantities of fuel that exceed that of the beer is an absurd waste. A waste of so many things that I don't want to say much more in case I seem like a loony greenie.

And, repeat after me, "It's only beer."

Most of us here make better beer than is the subject of the original concern. We should not let beer quality form the fundament of our argument.

The BUL stuff should show on the label where it is brewed. But it does.

The people who sell it should know where beer comes from. Problem there is that many of them (not all) simply don't care.

I reckon that it isn't a labelling issue. It is a knowledge issue.

I still drink Becks occassionally. I like the taste.

Back to the bunker for me, I guess....

[warra48]

Interesting and fair comment, SMOI.
No need for bunkering or flameproof suiting.
What makes these forums worthwhile is the divergent views of most of the contributors.
I think it just goes to show there is no single universal truth.
If everyone agreed with each other, it would get boring pretty quickly.
The same applies to any product. Peoples' different tastes and preferences mean there are many varied manufacturers and, I think, it ensures competition also.
If a new brewer wants to enter the market, it is extremely difficult to penetrate the so called megaswill brewers market, as they have the marketing muscle to try and keep their competitors out. In fairness, the megaswill brewers turn out a consistent product year after year, even though I have never been keen on brews like VB, Tooheys New, Crown Lager etc.
I look for character and individuality in my purchases, and I'm like that with most things I consume. That's why I have been a fan of products like James Squire and Little Creatures.
It's also why I do brews which don't necessarily fit into any pre-conceived style.
Here endeth the philosophy lesson.

[111222333]

I have it under VERY good authority that CUB has lost its license to brew Stella, Becks and Grolch (other licenses weren't discussed, so im not sure about things like Guinness) in Australia, and now must import them. The first few shipments have been here about a month or so im told, so the bottles you now buy should be the imported stuff. It will say so on the label, and not have *brewed under license by CUB* or what ever. Hope this is pleasing news to some of the lads

[Snowdog]

I noticed the Becks six-packs at the local bottlo were in plastic shrink-wrap instead of the cardboard ones. The last time I noted that, the shrink-wrapped ones were imported and had the add-on label for the ABV, standard drink amount, and the SA refund stuff. I didn't look at the Stella or Grolsch. I'll take a closer look on my next visit.

I wonder if this licensing change has to do with the S & N/Carlsberg brewing company sales in Europe a month or so back.

[rwh]

I bought a sixer of stella for a friend the other day, and as is my policy, looked to see if it was imported. It was. And for $15, a pretty good buy I reckon.

Now, does anyone know why they lost their license?

[Boonie]

I have it under VERY good authority that CUB has lost its license to brew Stella, Becks and Grolch (other licenses weren't discussed, so im not sure about things like Guinness) in Australia, and now must import them. The first few shipments have been here about a month or so im told, so the bottles you now buy should be the imported stuff. It will say so on the label, and not have *brewed under license by CUB* or what ever. Hope this is pleasing news to some of the lads

Nothing but good new there