HomebrewandBeer.com forum

I liken AIB to a printing company. You take your design into them, and they print it for you. No printing company would ever decline to print something because they didn't like the design. They might suggest alterations, but at the end of the day, it's up to the customer and the customer's budget.

AIB are brewers for hire, that's what they do. They don't hide that fact, but as you say, they don't advertise it on their bottles either. Probably because the label design isn't up to AIB, but instead is up to the customer once again.

You're right of course and so is my wife when she tells me I don't live in an ideal world.

I think the one thing we (beer lovers as opposed to alcohol lovers) is that tastes in this country are slowly changing and that the mega brewers themselves are sowing the seeds of their own demise. My thoughts are just look at the food we eat. My parents grew up eating chops and two veg for dinner. I grew up eating chops and three veg with occasional treat of chinese or pizza. Now look at all the gourmet cooking shows on telly and the kids running around comfeying duck beast and rolling thier own spring rolls. They won't eat bland food and chances are they won't drink bland beer either. It may take a generation for things to properly change but it will happen. Just look at the craft beer scene in America. We follow thier trends and it's happening out here, albeit slowly. By refusing to accept the crap that AIB pump out (and thoroughly endorsing their better products) we can do everyone a favour and hasten this change.

Um. End of rant.

emnpaul wrote:Nor am I naive enough to think that AIB aren't in business to make money. They are. However it would be nice to think that they cared enough about beer and their own reputation to do something along the lines of " This is what the customer asked for, but we can give them this for the same price and because we know what beer is meant to taste like, we know the punters will like it and the chablis sipping entrepreneur will be none the wiser".

There are far too many "real" breweries against whom the same (inferred) accusation should be levelled before a gun-for-hire mob like AIB. Just sayin'.

True that.

However, I think they were covered off years ago.

Thirsty Camel bottle shop. Imported Beer fridge bursting with BUL.
I walked out and went to BWS instead.

Vote with your wallets.

I sent an email to Thirst Camel regarding the justification for putting BUL in the imported beer section and charging imported prices. I raised some of the same points as Oliver in the op of this thread.

I had a call back from pretty quickly. Complete agreement from them on all points, no argument. A very interesting conversation, he was also candid about the practices of Australian brewing companies.
Apparently BUL is classed by the brewers as imported. It is to be marketed as imported and priced as imported. He wasn't able to tell me why but he agreed it was wrong.
Amongst other things, he mentioned that the breweries have legal people who will have done their homework and maybe a % of the ingredients are imported which may legally mean that it is classed as imported (this is only speculation neither of us are lawyers)
Also, and this is great, it is cheaper to buy the real imported versions of these beers. The mega breweries are the only ones getting rich here.

The bottom line of the conversation is this: It is an industry wide problem and the only way it will change is if we pressure the ACCC to legislate. Perhaps if we all take the time to fill out the web form on the ACCC website things might change.

I think Thirsty Camel should be applauded for their response and honesty.
I feel guilty for smashing all their windows now

Bee in bonnet now....
Sent to the ACCC

Several well known international brands of beer are currently being brewed in Australia yet marketed, sold and priced by retailers as imported.
These include, but not limited to, Stella Artois, Becks, Grolsch, Heineken, Peroni

Retailers are instructed by the breweries to market and sell these Australian products as imported. This includes putting them in fridges marked clearly as imported beer and adding them to lists of imported beers on menus in restaurants and cafes.
The bottles have small print on the label with the "brewed under licence" information.

Although this is subjective, the locally produced imitation products are inferior to the true imported products that they masquerade as.

I believe, and I am not a lawyer, that surely this must an illegal practice. There must be some legislation based around labelling and marketing of products.
To walk into a bottle shop, approach a fridge clearly marked "Imported Beer" and pick up a bottle of an internationally known brand and expect it to be imported is something that a reasonable person would do.

It is akin to taking the bottle from well reputed and globally recognised champagne (eg Moet & Chandon) and filling it with an inferior locally produced product. Then selling it as imported Moet & Chandon. In fact, it's exactly the same as that example.

Having spoken to the buyer of a national chain of bottle shops about this practice. He has informed me that it is dictated by the brewing companies not the retailers.
Regards.

Have retailers the ability to source and stock the genuine articles, or do the breweries, considering they own the rights to the respective brands locally, have some sort of trade right meaning that their versions have to be distributed here exclusively?

If a bottle-o stocked the actual imports, they could probably do well with in-store marketing trumping that they were the genuine imports. Could probably add another few quid to their margin on them, too.

bullfrog wrote:Have retailers the ability to source and stock the genuine articles, or do the breweries, considering they own the rights to the respective brands locally, have some sort of trade right meaning that their versions have to be distributed here exclusively?

I don't know, and I wish I had asked, but I suspect this is the case.
Otherwise, why buy a more expensive imitation when the real product is cheaper?

Because it isn't the BUL beers (nor the original versions) they want. It is the flagship beers they want - i.e. the beers people actually buy. A retailer's relationship with the megas is worth far more than the minor saving to be had by getting the real thing.

BadSeed wrote:Bee in bonnet now....

Welcome to the club BadSeed!

I feel you may as well be chewing on a brick for all the good it'll do you. Yes it would be good if everyone who visited this website wrote to their local member, fiiled out the ACCC form (maybe a link on here to download one would be good) and made abusive phone calls to CEO's of meggabrewers in the middle of the night. But that's in an ideal world.

For the most part I'll just vote with my wallet when it comes to the bought stuff and mostly drink home brew in protest, not just about the BUL issue but also because of the gov's wildly inequitable excise rake and bottle shop mark up and lack of variety.

I'm also a massive hypocrite and will drink Toohey's Old and BUL Heineken when I feel like it.

Tooheys Old is about the only reason I even bother walking into many NSW country pubs.

After the obligatory look over the counter to see what's in the fridge.

"er, umm, schooner of Old I guess"

Old is a reliable Friend to me

Hi all. I've been a lurking around here for some time and I thought I might posit an answer to bullfrog.

bullfrog wrote:If a bottle-o stocked the actual imports, they could probably do well with in-store marketing trumping that they were the genuine imports. Could probably add another few quid to their margin on them, too.

From the retailers I have spoken to about this, if a retailer wants to source proper imports of the beers we are talking about, which they can do and at cheaper prices than BUL, the large breweries then offer the retailer a higher price for their megaswill. Oddly enough, the higher price works out to be around the price the retailer would pay to obtain it at Dan's. Ouch!

It's a mockery of all beers good and pure.

Makes a lot of sense. Too bad a bottle-o that only stocked decent imports and micro/craft brews wouldn't really do too well, as your average punter just wants to buy the megaswill that they've always drunk.

The full moon bottlo in Sandgate QLD used to stock quite a good range of craft beer and I used to buy all my beer from them. They then stopped because it just didn't sell and have now filled the fridge back up with tooheys and xxxx. How's that for a compromise

Arghh Queenslanders, it's a simple life in Gods country. What can you say?

Response from ACCC
Thank you for your email of 30 March 2012 to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) regarding imported beer. Your reference number for this matter is 1240133.

The ACCC is responsible for administering the Competition and Consumer Act 2010 which incorporates the Australian Consumer Law (ACL). The ACL is a national law which applies to all business sectors. It covers general standards of business conduct, prohibits harmful practices, regulates specific types of business-to-consumer transactions, provides basic consumer rights for goods and services and regulates the safety of consumer products and product-related services.

It is understood from your email that international beer is currently bring brewed in Australia and marked as imported beer.

Section 18 of the ACL is a broad provision which prohibits a person, in trade or commerce, from engaging in conduct which is misleading or deceptive, or which is likely to mislead or deceive. Whether particular conduct is misleading or deceptive is a question of fact to be determined in the context of the evidence as to the alleged conduct and to the relevant surrounding facts and circumstances.

Your complaint has been recorded by the ACCC and will be used in monitoring whether there is a level of conduct within the industry which may raise concerns sufficient to warrant intervention by the ACCC. Whilst individual complaints also form the basis of investigations, it must be noted that the ACCC does not comment on matters we may or may not be investigating and the ACCC is unable to provide you with further information of any action we may or may not be taking in relation to your complaint. Please also note that the ACCC will only contact you again in relation to your complaint if we require further information or evidence to assist in our enquiries.

While all complaints are carefully considered, ACCC staff make decisions on which matters will be investigated further based on the ACCC’s Compliance and Enforcement policy. A number of factors are weighed including whether conduct raises national or international issues, involves significant consumer detriment or a blatant disregard of the law.
Thank you for bringing this matter to the attention of the ACCC. I trust this information is of assistance

bullfrog wrote:Makes a lot of sense. Too bad a bottle-o that only stocked decent imports and micro/craft brews wouldn't really do too well, as your average punter just wants to buy the megaswill that they've always drunk.

There is room for a few, these guys do ok - http://www.internationalbeershop.com.au/

Hey badseed, that response from accc is a long way of saying nothing.