flat beer!

[shammo]

just wondering if any of the other bottlers out there are using carbonation drops with success, i dont seem to be getting enough carbonation from them, although in my first batch i had a bottle bomb, but still felt the beer was a bit flat, i generally use 330 and 650ml bottles and fill as much as the little bottler allows me too.
What type of sugar is in the carbonation drops and do other types of sugars give better carbonation??

cheers for any help

[Planner]

Shammo

I've done 50 or so batches, all with carb drops. I mostly use the Coopers ones and have been reasonably happy with the results. I did once buy a packet of the Brewcraft drops because they were cheaper, but the sizes of each drop were all over the shop and my carb levels reflected this. Can't say I've had any flat beers that were the fault of the drops.

After saying the above, I'm looking to move to bulk priming so that I can drop the carbonation level a bit (especially for my stouts).

Planner

[barrelboy]

Hi Shammo, I use the Coopers drops as well and have not had a problem. Are you using 1 drop for the 330ml bottles and 2 for the 650 ones? Make sure fermentation is complete before you bottle and leave about 20ml head space.
Cheers BB

[shammo]

maybe its my headspace, do you use the bottling wand? when using it it seems to be a greater headspace than 20ml

[emnpaul]

I doubt the bottling wand and headspace is your problem. Except for keggers I think the bottling wand would be one of the most widely used pieces of brewing equiptment there is. I use one and would estimate the headspace around 50-60ml on average. This may vary according to foam and contraction due to bottling temp but doesn't seem to affect my carb lavels to any noticeable degree.

Can you give us some more information i.e. bottle washing medium, crown seal bottles, glasses washed in dishwasher et al.

Cheers
Paul

[barrelboy]

Sorry guys, I need to go back to school, headspace is around the 40ml mark.
BB

[shammo]

well my first brew i used a chlorine wash from hbs and rinsed, second brew i used dishwasher with no detergent all pop top bottles no screw type, i do get good head when pouring but dissapates quickly and seems to leave no carbonation left

[emnpaul]

Sounds familiar Shammo.

I'm not sure what the chlorine wash contains but when I started out I was using screw top VB Stubbies and washing in the kitchen sink with dishwashing powder. The result was what you have desribed , pretty much to the letter.

I fixed the problem by: Getting my hands on as many crown seal botttles as I could.
Soaking them in napi-san for 48Hrs before scrubbing well and tripple rinsing in hot water as endorsed by Dr. Smurto.
Sterilising with bleach solution recylcled from sterilising my fermentor.
NEVER washing my beer glasses in the dishwasher or kitchen sink. Just rinse in warm or hot water after each session and drip dry.

Never was exectly sure what the cause of flat beer was but think the botttles were picking up some soap residue from the sink or dishwashing powder. Slow leak down from the screw top seals was also a suspect as not all beers were flat, just some. I took a holistic approach and it worked for me. I use the above methods to this day, which may not be the easiest but I'm happy with the results.

Hopefully this helps. I'm sure there are a few things that I've not thought of as well.

Cheers
Paul

[shammo]

my second batch of bottles had no contact with the chlorine but i suppose soap residue from dishwasher is possible, its second hand and it was only the third time i had used it, i only use it for bottles though maybe it needs a few more cycles to flush out, it really saves alot of time bottling

[emnpaul]

I should also have said chlorine solution from Home brew shop should be O'K as its sold from a home brew shop.

Fats and oils could also be a problem. Maybe worth running one of those dishwasher cleaners you get from the supermarket just to be sure.

Do you use a bench capper? I was initially reluctant to lean on mine too hard, incase of breaking bottles. With a bit of practice I figured out I could go a fair bit harder than when I first started.

Cheers
Paul

[Scoot49]

My second brew, a Canadian Blonde, is flat.

I used cooper carb drops, fermented for 10 days, bottled for two weeks, and I still have half a batch in bottle still now... (about 3 months).....

I recently bought a set of Headmaster glasses, and it has helped with head retention and carbonation. It may be me, but it has worked.

Some of the bottles I dropped a couple of extra drops in, and they were fine in normal glasses, but the remainder were knackered

[shammo]

yer i use a benchcapper, dont think there is a problem there, i also use headmaster glasses, never washed in soap and and at serving temp, so not a problem there either

[bullfrog]

Just to clarify, is the issue that the beer is not carbonated or that there is no head? You can have a rapidly dissipating head on a beer that is still adequately carbonated.

[billybushcook]

I started out I was using screw top VB Stubbies
I fixed the problem by: Getting my hands on as many crown seal botttles as I could.
Paul

Almost all my bottles are twist top & havn't had a problem in years,
Except for one bottle.....the one I sent to Doc, it turned up flat as a tack but I suspect it was due to handling & the 40+ deg temps at the time.
So I'd doubt either of your problems are/were related to twist top bottles.
Temperature too can play a big part in lack of carbonation if it is in a cool place.

Still not clear on wether it's lack of carbonation (flat) or lack of head retension your talking about, I suspect the former.
Because risidual soap should only have an affect on head retension, carb should still happen.
Bleach (or most sanitizers) could be the culprit, if not removed it will kill your yeast!

Cheers, Mick.

[shammo]

im aware that head retention would be a problem on my first couple of brews as they were just kit an kilo with no extras, the issues is carbonation, there seems to be only enough carbonation to create the head when first poured and then seems very flat afterwards

[shammo]

i have come to realise that my second brew my not have finished carbonation yet even after 2-3 weeks, tried my first brew again and while head retention is poor carbonation is stille there have put my heater pad in cupboard to come on in three hour intervals to help the carbonation along, hope it works.

[emnpaul]

G'day Shammo. I've been thinking about your problem for a couple of days.

I think we have established that: Your beer is adequately and consistently primed, as in 2 carb drops per tallie, 1 per stubbie. Your bottles are properly sealed (I'm happy to concede this is not your problem and infact may not have been mine). Your glasses are detergent and oil free.

To my mind that leaves sanitiser/cleaner residue in the fermenter, contaminants in the dishwasher or lack of carbonation and maturation time, as you say. Did I miss anything?

Hopefully the problem is solved by the heater pad. Please let us know how you get on as I'm very curious about the outcome.

Cheers
Paul

[shammo]

To my mind that leaves sanitiser/cleaner residue in the fermenter, contaminants in the dishwasher or lack of carbonation and maturation time, as you say. Did I miss anything?

Hopefully the problem is solved by the heater pad. Please let us know how you get on as I'm very curious about the outcome.

Cheers
Paul

i did rack and add finings to my second brew, so that coupled with the colder weather may explain the lack of carbonation atm, i definatley need to work on my cleaning and sanitizing methods