Beer

[chocko]

Hi all
I am new to brewing and have only just put down a Teds using saflager s23, the temperature is a stable 16 degrees,it has been brewing for 5 days now and is still burping every 10 seconds, how long should it take to stop brewing. A bit like how long is a piece of string i suppose.
How does the Alpha acid in a hop change the brew, and does a particular hop generally have the same AA%, eg.... Amarillo (8.6% Alpha).
How does the boiling and steeping change the character of a hop taste/bitterness
Why would you brew onto the old yeast cake, wouldnt the risk of infection increase?

Thinking of doing a Coopers cervesa with 15 g citra hops boiled for 15 mins and steeped for 30mins, looking for a citrusy Corona type beer,but not the hops bitterness, am i on the right track?

Lots of questions but your help would be greatly appreciated.

[timmy]

Hi there,

I'd keep the lager in the fermenter until it stops burping. At that temp, I'd tend to leave it for 3-4 weeks before bottling, just to be sure. Not sure about the AA questions, but I'm sure someone on here will pipe in with an answer.

The cerveza with citra is a great summer drop. I did one a few months back with a tin of the cerveza, 1kg pack of BE2 and some citra (can't remember how much and how long though) and fermented with the kit yeast at around 12degrees. Now would be a great time to brew another I think...

Cheers,

Tim

[emnpaul]

G'day Chocko and welcome.

I'll try to help where I can.

If you are using S23 yeast I'd try to keep the temperature a bit lower if you can. 10-12*C is good. maybe do a search on "tempmate" fridge controllers. They are good.

The Alpha acids in hops are what gives a beer it's bitterness. The more dissolved alpha acids, the more bitter a brew will be. However there are a few factors which complicate the situation. Alpha acids are not very soluble and require heat and or boiling to force them into solution which is why many recipes call for a 60 min bittering addition (boiled). On the other hand aroma/flavour compounds found in hops are quite volatile and easily lost if left to boil too long.

If you want bitterness boil them. If it's flavour you are after then steep or throw them straight into the fermenter. Citra is a rather bitter hop and if you are after flavour and not bitterness then I woiuldn't boil them at all. Just make a hop tea by steeping in a cup of hot or near boiling water for about 10 mins, then chuck the lot into your fermenter. You might like to try 10g steeped and then another 10g dry into the fermenter after 2 or 3 days.

Hops alpha acid percentage are generally within a range. That is Amarillo might be an average of 8.6% AA but depending on location, conditions during that growing season, stresses on the hop bine(parent plant) such as pest infestation, disease and lack of water will all play a role in determining the characteristics of that particular harvest. For instance while the average may be 8.6% or so, you might find Amarillo advertised as being say, 7.2% AA or even 9.5% AA, depending on which crop they came from.

I'm not a fan of pitching a brew onto an old yeast cake under normal circumstances, although I have done it a couple of times. I just wouldn't advise it, per se. My preference would be to harvest a cup of yeast cake and then pitch that into my next brew after cleaning and sanitising the fermenter. Ther is some handy info on this in the stickies at the top of the making beer index. Also lots of other good info there too. My advice, read, read, read. As much as you can. And don't be afraid to experiment and try things out. Only through experience will you know...

And don't worry dude, you'll still make beer.

Cheers
Paul

[chocko]

Hi Paul
Thanks for the information, that has explained quite a bit, but there is a hell of a lot to learn, like you said read read read.
Cheers chocko

[Oliver]

Hi and welcome, Chocko.

To pick up on some of the previous comments ...

My most recent brew was pitched onto a US-05 yeast cake and all turned out fine. The brew started fermenting vigorously very, very quickly (pretty much straight away, in fact) which is not surprising given the huge amount of yeast sitting in the cake waiting for some sugar to come along so that it could continue its magic It was over and done with after three or four days, even though the temperature was around 14C-15C

If you are fastidious about sanitation and confident that the cake you're pitching onto isn't infected then I say go for it. Aim to pitch a similar or darker beer onto the cake, because there will be some transfer of colour and flavour from the previous brew.

In relation to Citra, the partial mash brew above was dry hopped with 20g Citra and 20g Galaxy as fermentation was subsiding, which is the best time to do it so that fermentation doesn't drive off flavour and aroma. I just put the hops into a hop bag (a stocking is fine, too) and dumped it into the fermenter. A hop bag is not essential, but the hops can be a major PITA because they tend to clog the little bottler.

The brew turned out magnificently. It has heaps of aroma and good flavour. There were another 20g of each hop added at 10 mins, 5 mins and flamout, so there was some flavour, bitterness and aroma from them too. Base kit was a Coopers Lager.

Having written all that, my hopping schedule is way more than what you'd be looking for. But I'd try 20g Citra dry hopped and go from there.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Oliver

[chocko]

Thanks Oliver
Just to clarify , soon after emptying the fermenter you started another brew straight onto the old yeast without adding any new yeast ? Does the yeast cake need to be stirred into the new brew or left on the bottom?
So if i had done a cervesa first with hops i could have done a teds straight away and have a very minimal cervesa brew influence? BUT, what is to be gained from using the old yeast cake when the chance of infection may be increased ?

cheers chocko

[timmy]

If you are re-using a yeast cake, it's best to have the second beer darker and more hoppy than the last so you have less chance of noticeable flavour carry over.

The advantages of re-use is you get a full population of healthy yeast which will ferment the second brew faster, meaning you can lower the temps if you want to get a cleaner taste.

[Oliver]

Just to clarify , soon after emptying the fermenter you started another brew straight onto the old yeast without adding any new yeast ?

That's it. Drained the very last of the old beer off, then just added the new one onto it. I put some cold water in first, though, as the wort was still warm.

Does the yeast cake need to be stirred into the new brew or left on the bottom?

I didn't. Tipping the new beer in will stir things up sufficiently. But you could stir if you wanted to, I suppose.

So if i had done a cervesa first with hops i could have done a teds straight away and have a very minimal cervesa brew influence?

+1 to what Timmy said. I'm not familiar with the Ted's, sorry. But if it's a fairly light coloured and flavoured brew then yes, you can tip the cerveza straight onto it without having too much of an influence on the flavour of the new beer.

BUT, what is to be gained from using the old yeast cake when the chance of infection may be increased ?

Also +1 to what Timmy said. In addition, you don't have to clean and sanitise the fermenter. (So laziness is the reason, basically )

Cheers,

Oliver