Boiling protocol

[freeloopdub]

Hey,

I was wondering what everyone's general procedure is with doing the boil - ie boiling of malts, can ingredients, hops, etc. and the order and duration that they are added/boiled.

I'm guessing a lot of people differ on this subject, so I was looking to get a few different ideas.

Also, another thing.. I've noticed that Morgans kits strictly say to not boil the ingredients as the aromas will be destroyed. I was thinking of boiling them anyway.. anyone have experience with this?

Thanks,

Luke

[Shaun]

I boil all fermentables for 10 - 30 minutes depending on what I am doing with hops additions in 2 litters of water. Soak the tin in hot water to soften it then add kit to the fermenter then pour in the boiled stuff on top of the kit.

[chris.]

Ditto Shaun.
I don't see the point in boiling kits. & I believe it does more harm than good.

[JaCk_SpArRoW]

Ditto Shaun.
I don't see the point in boiling kits. & I believe it does more harm than good.

In what way chris?...have you had any ill effects of boiling kits?....please elaborate if possible!...cheers

[Rubber.Piggy]

I brew with unhopped MEs and do an 8L boil, then make up to volume with cold filtered water.

Add specialty grains to cold wort in stockings
Bring to boil and remove grain stockings
Add boiling hops, rolling boil for 50 mins
Add flavour hops, rolling boil 10 mins
Flame out
Add aroma hops, sit for 1-2mins
Pour through strainer into primary

Also, another thing.. I've noticed that Morgans kits strictly say to not boil the ingredients as the aromas will be destroyed. I was thinking of boiling them anyway.. anyone have experience with this?

You could always add some aroma hops at the end of the boil.

[da_damage_done]

I've boiled my last 5 batches including a Morgan's Blue Mountain Lager (which is still in the brew fridge so I can't comment on destroying aromas)

Normal procedure is to steep grains for 30mins @ 70 degrees (if I'm using grains). Then add all ingredients including can to the water (either water from steeping or normal water) and boil for at least 30mins - 60mins. I then add hops at different stages depending on what I'm trying to do.

The only reasoning I'm boiling is that I remember Doggar saying that it will improve your brews / and ward off possible germs in the ingredients. I can't honestly say whether it's better or worse - but I must admit that I've been enjoying the brews I've put down lately.

Hope this helps - Cheers

Here's a more detailed list of what I did on each brew - http://hyperfox.info/beer

[Tipsy]

I boil all fermentables for 10 - 30 minutes depending on what I am doing with hops additions in 2 litters of water. Soak the tin in hot water to soften it then add kit to the fermenter then pour in the boiled stuff on top of the kit.

I do similiar myself, I think boiling a kit would affect the hops.

[Aussie Claret]

Guys,
The only reason Dodger feels that boiling improves beer is to help clarify the beer. IMHO hopped kits shouldn't be boiled (a view shared by Oliver)because as had been said the iso hops that are used for bittering and aroma may be driven off; additionally you may darken your beer, which may not necessarily be a bad thing unless you are trying to replicate a particular style. For example a pilsner should be pale yellow in colour not amber, which could happen if you caramelise the extract during boiling. All cans of malt are pasturized therefore there are no nasties in them.

I personally only boil adjuncts such as the wort from speciality steeped or mashed grains (1Hr), any dry ingredient ((5mins), or hops (depending on bittering or aroma the time). I only boil for a short period of time dry ingredients to prevent any discolouration of the malts or brewing sugars; the hops may be boiled for longer periods for bittering purposes or shorter periods for aroma and flavour, steeped or mashed grains are boiled for about an hour.

AC

[gregb]

If I am using kit and simple adjuncts, I don't bother with a boil. Partial with a kit I add it at flame out. If I am doing an AG or an Extract batch will often boil for up to 80ish minutes. Boil till the hot break has done then an hour with the hops etc

Cheers,
Greg

[da_damage_done]

I personally only boil adjuncts such as the wort from speciality steeped or mashed grains, any dry ingredient, or hops. I only boil for a short period of time to prevent any discolouration of the malts or brewing sugars; the hops may be boiled for longer periods for bittering purposes or shorter periods for aroma and flavour.

After reviewing some of the threads re: boiling of kits I think I'm leaning toward only boiling the adjuncts in the future like you say. My last couple of brews have all been darker than my earlier ones.

Probably just for 10-15mins.

Cheers

[JaCk_SpArRoW]

As I am adding hops at stages anyway to compensate and using grain for freshness, colour, and retention I figured adding the kit at 45 mins would be safe....See below:

Steep grains for 30 mins @ 68*C in 5 litres
Boil 1 hour
Add Unhopped light extract at 60 mins
Add 30g Willamette @ 30 mins
Add kit @ 45 mins
Add 20g Willamette @ 50 mins

[chris.]

Ditto Shaun.
I don't see the point in boiling kits. & I believe it does more harm than good.

In what way chris?...have you had any ill effects of boiling kits?....please elaborate if possible!...cheers

Jack,

Boiling kits, especially with small boil volumes for extended times (1hr or so), will caramelise the malt & slightly lower the fermentability of the wort. To some degree 'sweetening' & darkening the final product.
& as mentioned you will also be boiling off some of the bitterness & aroma (if the kit contains it). By boiling your messing around with the 'balance' of the kit.

Also a higher boil gravity will lower your hop extraction if your adding flavour hop additions.

Most kits these days have been processed & the 'break' / protiens have been removed & will produce a clear beer without boiling. why mess with it?

These days if I'm making a kit i'll boil up a kilo of malt along with the run off from some specialty grain for 10-20mins adding some flavour & aroma hop additions. & add this to the kit in the fermentor.

[JaCk_SpArRoW]

No worries...thanks chris....I know a lot of brewers use kits in their partials & extract brews & most of them boil it for a small amount of time.
I figured boiling it for no more than 10-15 minutes wouldnt hurt but if thats what you suggest & its not really worth it, then I'll take your word for it...again, thanks for the suggestions & advice!

[chris.]

No worries...thanks chris....I know a lot of brewers use kits in their partials & extract brews & most of them boil it for a small amount of time.
I figured boiling it for no more than 10-15 minutes wouldnt hurt but if thats what you suggest & its not really worth it, then I'll take your word for it...again, thanks for the suggestions & advice!

10-15min boil won't really make much of a difference compared to an hour long boil. But then again I don't really see a need for it.

[JaCk_SpArRoW]

So you reckon to just go with the following as a boil??....

250g Carapils & 150g Dark crystal steeped in 5 litres
Unhopped Amber extract
Add 30g Willamette @ 30 mins
Add 20g Willamette @ 50 mins

Then add the kit to the fermenter & pour the cooled, boiled wort in on top & dissolve?

Would the hop additions be too much as there would be hops in the kit?

[chris.]

So you reckon to just go with the following as a boil??....

250g Carapils & 150g Dark crystal steeped in 5 litres
Unhopped Amber extract
Add 30g Willamette @ 30 mins
Add 20g Willamette @ 50 mins

Then add the kit to the fermenter & pour the cooled, boiled wort in on top & dissolve?

Would the hop additions be too much as there would be hops in the kit?

I take it your using a kit? if so you should cut back on the boil time of the hops. a 10min & flame out addition will be fine.
Also I'd steep the grain using about 2 litres, rinse grain with a litre or 2 & top up the run off to 5 litres.
Are you going for something along the lines of a JS amber?
I peronally don't like using amber or dark extracts & prefer to make up the colour with specialty grain. I'd use a pale extract & up the crystal.

[JaCk_SpArRoW]

Yeah I've got the Morgans Royal Oak Amber Ale kit to use

Ok, so if Im steeping the grain (was thinking of just using an old stocking which has been boiled to sterilise) in 2 litres of water...rinsing it would consist of what?...removing the grain from the stocking & rinsing thru a strainer?

Yep, thats what Im trying to clone...Im not worried if it doesnt turn out exaclty the same, im not expecting it to but close would be good.

[Aussie Claret]

Hey Jack,
Whilst you are only steeping 400g of grain a stocking will probably not be strong enough as the grains absorb water and become much heavier, try a laundry bag, as they are usually stronger. Also you don't need to sterilise it before steeping (so long as it looks clean) the reason being is that you are going to boil the resulting wort which would kill any nasties.

Regarding rinsing the grain leave it in the bag and remove from the pan or what ever you are using to steep this grain in and have ready some water in another pan at about 75c. Leave it in the water for 5-10 mins gentle stirring or swirling the sack around, after which pour the liquid off into the first steep wort. Try to avoid oxygenating the wort when at high temps, as this can lead to off flavours.

You only oxygenate the wort prior to pitching the yeast when at cooler pitching temperatures. Oh yeh 2 lites to steep and 2l to rinse should be plenty with 400g of grain.

Hope this makes sense.

AC

[JaCk_SpArRoW]

Hey Jack,
Whilst you are only steeping 400g of grain a stocking will probably not be strong enough as the grains absorb water and become much heavier, try a laundry bag, as they are usually stronger. Also you don't need to sterilise it before steeping (so long as it looks clean) the reason being is that you are going to boil the resulting wort which would kill any nasties.

Regarding rinsing the grain leave it in the bag and remove from the pan or what ever you are using to steep this grain in and have ready some water in another pan at about 75c. Leave it in the water for 5-10 mins gentle stirring or swirling the sack around, after which pour the liquid off into the first steep wort. Try to avoid oxygenating the wort when at high temps, as this can lead to off flavours.

You only oxygenate the wort prior to pitching the yeast when at cooler pitching temperatures. Oh yeh 2 lites to steep and 2l to rinse should be plenty with 400g of grain.

Hope this makes sense.

AC

AC, thanks heaps mate, I really appreciate you clearing that up for me...one comment made to me was starch haze from steeping carapils, is this a common thing that happens with this type of grain?

I think I have a laundry bag so I will give that a try, if not I'll just go buy some muzlin cloth & use that!...cheers again mate, muchly appreciated!!

[Aussie Claret]

Hi,
Chill Haze is caused from protein starches, that only become apparent when the beer is chilled. When the beer is warm it can be crystal clear, the way to avoid it or reduce it, is to add Irish Moss for the final 15-20 mins of the boil (1-2 tea spoons).

I think that most grains when mashed can leave protein starches but I'm not an expert; I've added the irish moss to all but my first partial (because I didn't have any). like I said I'm only experimenting with the partials at the moment.

AC