Weihenstephaner pilsner clone

[beerdrinker]

had a taste of this great beer today!!! $6 a bottle and the best pilsner i have tried!!! anyone have an ag clone? cheers

[beerdrinker]

i kinda didnt expect one thought i had a very slim chance of it the brewery is almost a thousand years old might have to get a relative in germany to call em up?

[gregb]

Bd,

You'll probably need a decoction (or double or triple decoction) mash.

At a guess I'd say do a double decocotion on Pilsner malt - infusion mash at 50C, first decoction to 60C and second decoction to 70C. Bitter with Saaz to 40 odd or more IBU's. I'm yet to chance my arm with decoction mashing so I've only the vaguest idea of efficencies etc.

Cheers,
Greg

[Ed]

I've not seen that beer, will look out for it next time for a taste. Guess it's SAAZ hops BD? Is it a really light Pils or a more rich colour?

I agree with Greg, to get some authenticity, probably a decotion. Only done single decotions because the malts used are fully modified so don't really see the need to go more than one step except for maybe more flavour benefits again. The single decotion gives me about 5% extra extraction over a single infusion.

Cheers, Ed

[beerdrinker]

might leave this one till i get a few AG;s under my belt definately saaz hops, light and refreshing with a crazy smoothness 5.1% going to try thier lager tomorrow if its there? have heard they are famous for thier wheat beer! id brew 100L of it if i could get close Have heard other people say pilsners are the hardest to perfect? will add some notes next time i try the lager cheers

[Ed]

Oh yeah, I know the brand now in the 500 ml bottles huh? I had one of the wheats a couple of weeks ago. Not a big fan of wheats but it was the best one I've tried.

I think you're right about the Pils being difficult to perfect because any flaws will show up, even if it's just slightly out. A good one is very good though. Will look for that Pils next time I'm at the bottle shop. Have you tried the Urquell, and if so, how would you rate it against this one?

Cheers, Ed

[beerdrinker]

yep the 500ml bottle, havent tried an urquell for a long time, at least not with my refined tastebuds my bro says its better than urquell and hes pretty fussy. will pick up a bottle next time i see one. tried the little creatures pilsner straight after the weihenstephaner and it was nice but not as good dowened a bohemian pilsner 5mins ago and it was nice but nowhere near it

[Ed]

If it's that good, then I'm going to try one. Thanks.

I've only done a few all grain Pils, and I reckon it's probably best not to try and imitate something exactly because that would probably be impossible as we don't exactly know how each brewery is handling their brews. So I reckon just make a good one and keep refining it.

This one below worked really well for me if you want to give it a try. I reckon it comes close to the really good ones, well I'm biased because it's mine . I would wait and see how you go for efficiency etc first. This was worked on 95% extract efficiency which ended up at 85% system because of some spillage and trub. The decotion and cereal mash isn't difficult at all and I'd say you'd be able to tackle it after a few AG's. If you need any extra info for the decotion or cereal part, just shout out.

Cheers, Ed

Batch: 24.00 L, Decotion Cereal Mash

Characteristics
---------------
Recipe Gravity: 1.048 OG
Recipe Bitterness: 36 IBU
Recipe Color: 4° SRM
Estimated FG: 1.012
Alcohol by Volume: 4.8%
Alcohol by Weight: 3.7%

Ingredients
-----------
Weyermann Carapils, 0.12 kg, mashed
JW Pilsner malt, 4.00 kg, mashed
White rice, 0.50 kg, mashed

Northern Brewer 9.3%, 25.00 g, pellet, 60 minutes
Saaz 3.5%, 30.00 g, pellet, 30 minutes
Saaz 3.5%, 30.00 g, pellet, 5 minutes

Swiss lager yeast (S-189), 24 gm pack

Notes
-----
Actual OG: 1.051
Actual FG: 1.011
1 step decoction mash. 64C, 70C
Ferment temp 11C
primed @ 2.6 volumes

[beerdrinker]

thanks for the recipe ed! am still a little confused as to how much water to add at each step im planning on batch sparging to start. do i use beersmith and go by the decoction mash example there? i was thinking it meant boiling an amount of the first runnings then adding it back to achieve 70C then sparging the lot at another temp to get more than 24L to compensate to losses cheers mate

[beerdrinker]

hey ed one last q for a while am gonna try a snpa clone for my first ag and the recipe calls for a mash out temp for 15 mins? how do i achieve the higher temp? cheers

[Aussie Claret]

Beer drinker
You add boiling water, beer smith will tell you to add water at 91c or something similar and it should tell you the amount to add.

On the mash profile tick the the single mash infusion (what ever body) two steps.

Cheers
AC

[Ed]

Bd, I'll try and post up something tonight regarding the decotion and cereal mash. Have some links, a couple of photos, and will try to explain it. With regard to the mash out, I don't bother about doing it as there should be virtually no conversion activity left at that point of the mash anyway. If you do want the mash out step, you add enough boiling water to raise the mash temp to that point. I don't use the software for the calculations, just a spreadsheet, so do what AC says.

Cheers, Ed

[Ed]

Bd, with the decotion mash, you pull out a portion of the thick mash leaving a fair bit of the water behind. This is then raised in temp, held, boiled, and then returned back to the mash to achieve the next temperature step. I've only done a single step for the decotion because no.1, the malts I'm using are fully modified, and no. 2, there is less time involved. The decotion does make for a long brew day even when it's just a single.

For the following, try to avoid too much splashing and always stir while heating.

So what you do is start the mash at the desired first step, let's say 64C. Allow it to sit for 20 mins for some conversion and then pull out around 25 to 30% of the thick mash and place it in a pot.

The pot then gets heated up to the higher end of conversion range, so let's say 70C (stir to stop the grains burning). You rest it there for another 15 to 20 minutes, and then bring it up to boil (keep stirring like crazy). Boil and stir for 15 minutes.

When finished, return this decotion back to the main mash that has been sitting at 64C (and has probably dropped off in temp by now), measuring the temp as you stir it together. Don't add all of the decotion back in as you may be raising the mash higher than wanted, it is perfectly acceptable to leave the rest of the decotion sitting until such time that it has dropped off in temp and then add it back to the mash.

You now allow the mash to rest for another 20 minutes and then start the sparging. Sounds complicated, but it isn't really.

There are variations to doing the decotion, and some make the last step a raise to mash-out temps. But the above seemed to work well for me. Hope it made some sense.

Some excellent reading on the process in the following links and Graham Sanders show how to combine a cereal mash with the decotion:
http://oz.craftbrewer.org/Library/Metho ... coct.shtml
http://hbd.org/brewery/library/DecoctFAQ.html

Cheers, Ed

[beerdrinker]

hey ed, just downed a couple of the bros chech pilsner urquells a great beer!!! my second favourite apart from the weihenstephaner so similar but the weihenstephaner seems a little bubblier?(could have ben the temp) a little crisper and smoother aswell as a touch more well rounded but not by much had at least 8 beers by now will try the comparison a bit more sober next time cheers mmm this HB stout is nice

[Ed]

They are nice huh. Still haven't got down to the bottle shop to try a Weihenstephaner pils Must remember going by what you reckon. Yeah some of the pils seem a little more carbonated than others, although usually quite similar.

Cheers, Ed