Newbie question - planning my second batch

[pixelboy]

Im gunna throw some SAAZ in mine im doing on Sat.

Ill prob put about 30 gms in.. maybe a little more into the secondary.

And im going to try and source some of that Bitter Orange Peel too

[Chris]

This post has broken the 100!

[Adzmax]

Hey here is an interesting page I was reading -

http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/BeerOTM ... rs_wit.htm

[Danzar]

Hmm, yeah, I'd up the Saaz to 28g-30g, but boil them for the last 5 minutes - you want this for taste, not bitterness.

The grain and grape article was interesting because I've seen Goldings hops recommended elsewhere, when making a Hoegaarden.

So, you could halve your Saaz - go with 14g. Use 14g of the Goldings but on a longer boil.

I'm now completely sold on Adzmax's recommendation to use the 3944 Belgian Witbier Yeast as I've now seen it recommended too many times to ignore it.

Also have no idea where to get the Curacau. It's definitely used in cakes so that may help in your searches. Suggest either health food store or supermarket.

Chris - it's a big post now isn't it? The good thing is we're literally fine-tuning this recipe and when we nail it, I'll be tickled pink.

I'll be putting down my third attempt at this shortly.

I'm reposting the recipe in line with what we've so far agreed.

Here it is:

INGREDIENTS
1. 1 can of Blackrock Whispering wheat (or the Coopers Brewmaster selection Wheat Beer)
2. 1.5kg (can) of liquid wheat malt (or 1.5kg of dried wheat malt - take your pick).
3. 12g coriander seeds - crushed. They are dry - you want to crack most of the seeds so the flavour seeps in on the boil.
4. 14g dried orange rind (Curacau).
5. 1kg torrefied wheat.
6. 3944 Belgian Witbier Yeast.
7. Saaz hops (14g).
8. K Goldings hops (14g)

BREWING INSTRUCTIONS
1. In 3 litres of water, boil your goldings hops, crushed coriander seeds and dried orange rind. At the 5 minute mark, add the malt. At the 10 minute mark, add the Saaz hops. After 5 more minutes remove from heat and let stand for 15 minutes.
2. Steep your torrefied wheat in 5-6 litres of freshly boiled water for 30 minutes.
3. Strain the liquid from the steeped wheat into a smaller pot and boil this liquid for a few minutes - just to kill any nasties.
4. Strain the liquid from the boiled fermentables into your fermenter.
5. Add the boiled liquid from torrefied wheat to the fermenter.
6. Top up fermenter with COLD (I refrigerate as much water as I can the night before as your wort will be pretty hot at this point and needs cooling, particularly in summer).
7. Take your SG reading.
8. Add the yeast. Ideal pitch temp is around 22 degrees max.

PRESTO!

NOTES:
The yeast is pretty active, so I suggest you leave the slightest of gaps when you put the lid on the fermenter, just for the first two days. Otherwise your airlock will vomit krausen.

SOLVED: Don't boil the orange for too long. I originally boiled for a full 15 minutes and it's too strong. 5 minutes should be fine. THIS SHOULD NO LONGER BE A PROBLEM IF YOU USE THE DRIED RIND.

The torrefied wheat sucks up alot of liquid, hence I've increased the steep amount to 5-6 litres. I'd even recommend doing this step the night before, as six litres of freshly boiled water will murder your pitch temp, even with all the refrigerated cold water. At least that way you won't have to refrigerate as much.

Hops are purely optional [NOT ANY MORE. USE THEM].

Views?

EDIT: Edited step 1. 45 minutes is way too long a boil for the goldings. 15 minutes is fine.

[111222333]

Convention is to have atleast some malt in the boil with hops so as not to extract unwanted oils. May be just a couple of spoons of dry malt in the boil.

[Pale_Ale]

What oils would be unwanted?

[OldBugman]

I used goldings for bittering in my wheat beer.. come up top knotch.


I saw it somewhere and thought that it was a bit odd, but gave it a go.

[Tipsy]

This post has broken the 100!

Are we still talking about the second batch

[Eureka]

Gees the amount of time this posting has hung around the author would be on his third or fourth!

[OldBugman]

surely more than the 4th?

I've made 13 batchs since this discussion started

[timmy]

Gees the amount of time this posting has hung around the author would be on his third or fourth!

On my sixth actually.

I've had a number of these (2nd batch) brews recently and have been quite happy with them. They obviously need more head (read less boiling of orange zest) and some hops would be nice. I also used the LLME for the recipe instead of wheat malt as advised.

The next batch will definately be the 'agreed' recipe posted earlier and will rack this time for sure (didn't last time due to lack of equipment).

So thanks everyone for all your help on this and I've been glad to have kicked off such a discussion....

Cheers,

Tim

[111222333]

What oils would be unwanted?

Beta Acids ?? Nah, I kid you not, they tend to give a very harsh bitterness to that almost out weight their more alphabetically superior brother acids.

[Pale_Ale]

Couldn't you just boil them for less time then?

Surely the only reason to add malt is to bring up the gravity of the boil so the hops are less efficient?

[111222333]

It's not to do with time. Alpha acids are extraced preferentially, but with a very low gravity boil (read low osmoles) the beta acids are also leeched out in noticable quantities, and they give the wort an astringent bitter taste, which tastes off to almost every one. Yes you are right though, the malt is added to reduce the effiency of the hops in boil, namely to minimise beta acids.

[Pale_Ale]

Ah I see

So what would be the minimum water/malt ratio for boiling hops? i.e what is the most efficient point before the Beta Acids are released?

[111222333]

It's normally recomended to be optimum about the OG of the wort, but a table spoon of malt in 2Lt is also about enough for aroma hop additions to kit brews.

[Danzar]

For those looking for the Dried Bitter Orange Peel:

I've visited and rang everwhere from organic food suppliers, herb places, health food stors etc and can't find it.

Hoegaarden definitely use this exact thing in their beer.

Bitter orange peel comes from what's called
Seville Oranges.

I'd suggest you buy some of those, skin them and dry the peel in the usual fashion.

How to dry orange peel
Buy organic versions (pestiside free) - if you can't, get the ususal version and wash using a scrubbing brush.

Skin them, leaving the white part behind.

Lay them skin down on a plate on the kitchen bench for three or four days, or until fully dry.

Presto! Put them in a jar and keep in a dark place (your spice cupboard should do). Weigh this out to 14g per batch when you're ready to make your beer.

At the end of the day, it's not much more work as you'd have to skin the ususal oranges anyway - with this, you just use a different type of orange and start a few days earlier

[Adzmax]

Ace, thanks for that. I'm looking to do another batch this w/e!

[timmy]

But what's the point in drying them yourself if you're only going to rehyrade anyway when you chuck them in the boil?

I would have thought that you can use the freshly grated stuff (provided it's from the correct oranges) and perhaps adjust the quantities to suit the fresh stuff. Same as you do when using dried vs fresh herbs in your cooking.

[Adzmax]

Yeah probably, I think that by drying them you'd find that some of the flavour will evaporate with the liquid from the skin itself. Substituting the quantity may some impact. The only reason we were talking about dried peel is because that's what Hoegaarden mention.