Chocolate Imperial Stout

[Slacker]

Looking for comments on my first attempt at adding grains to a brew:

220g total crystal, chocolate, and roast malt (steeped 30 mins)
1 can Coopers Stout
1 can Toohey's Old (or Cooper's Dark)
1 can Cooper's Bitter (or Lager, haven't decided yet)
60g unsweetened baker's chocolate
15g Willamette hops
15g Fuggles hops
water to 23L
330 ml starter of Coopers Pale Ale yeast
red wine yeast to finish it off in secondary (thanks to O&G for this)
180g dry malt extract for priming

A bit light on the grains, I know. But it's sure to be an exciting fermentation. Any advice?

Thanks.

[gregb]

Be sure to be ready to clean up the super krausen when it really gets going. Bottle in stubbies and see if you can manages to store one for >3 years. Apart from that looks good.

Cheers,
Greg

[Slacker]

3 years, eh? Can't manage to keep a batch around for much longer than 3 months with the drinkers I've got here (mostly me). Thanks for your input, Greg. I should be putting it down this weekend.

[Chris]

I'd suggest more hops for flavour and/or aroma. After aging for a while, it will definately need them. Also to counter the sweetness from all that malt.

[Slacker]

Thanks, Chris. I've been talking with Pat from Blue Mountains Brewing Supplies and he actually recommended reducing the IBU level by going with two cans of Dark rather than one Dark and one stout. He mentioned the IBUs from the tins alone would be at 92. Add the extra hops and it'll be one bitter beer - which is fine by me, I love a strong IPA.

I'm also hoping to take out some of the malt sweetness by finishing it off with a red wine yeast in the secondary fermenter (where I expect it to be for about a month).

So I guess it's just a matter of taste. I'll probably take your advice and go with a bit more on the aroma side of adding hops - it might help cancel out the overwhelming smell of alcohol I'm expecting. Maybe even dry hop it? What do you think?

And speaking of IBU level in commercial tins, anyone know a good website that lists ones sold here in Australia? I've been to the manufacturers' websites, but I could only find listings for Coopers, and it wasn't on their website.

[BierMeister]

As far as your IBU level of 92 or so it all depends on whether you plan to keep it for say a minimum of 18 months before cracking the first one or if you want one to drink after only a short time. By looking at your receipe and from experience of a previous one that would have had a similar IBU level it would be really good after 2 years. Mine was similar to Coopers vintage stout after that time and I only kick myself that I was too impatient. Otherwise I would cut out the bitter can and see how it goes.

Dry hopping is also a good idea.

[Chris]

I recon 92+ works well, but that is purely preference.

The red wine yeast will get some of the sweetness out, and probably add some interesting flavour characteristics. Instead of adding the red yeast to 2ndary, maybe add it to primary a little bit before fermentation has completed. Just make a starter, and pitch at high krausen, when primary is starting to drop off. That may add some really interesting depth to your stout.

[chris.]

And speaking of IBU level in commercial tins, anyone know a good website that lists ones sold here in Australia? I've been to the manufacturers' websites, but I could only find listings for Coopers, and it wasn't on their website.

Listen to Pat. A good knowledgable HBS owner. He also lists the Malt Shovel beers IBU's on his site somewhere.

[Slacker]

Yeah, Pat's really been a huge help with getting this recipe nailed down (as have all on this thread). I'll definitely be doing more business with him. But unfortunately I'm stuck with what commercial extracts I can find at Wooly's, Cole's, and KMart, which is basically Coopers, Cascade, and Tooheys. I'm pretty much through with Cascade tins. Shipping extract to Alice is a bit too costly for me, and I'm not quite up to all grain just yet. Soon.... Until then, it's k + k + k + hops

Thanks all for your seasoned advice. If my shipment from BMB arrives this week, it'll be brewing this weekend!

[chris.]

And speaking of IBU level in commercial tins, anyone know a good website that lists ones sold here in Australia? I've been to the manufacturers' websites, but I could only find listings for Coopers, and it wasn't on their website.

He also lists the Malt Shovel beers IBU's on his site somewhere.

Sorry Slacker I misread your post

You could try emailing the manufacturer for the kit IBU's.

[Slacker]

So I've changed the recipe a bit (is it normal to change a recipe mid-brew?).

I decided I really wanted the chocolate to come out in this but using baker's chocolate felt like cheating (plus, I didn't have any in the kitchen). So I ditched that and added some extra choc malt.

I was also concerned about the IBUs - not for the bitterness factor, but for the length of time I'd have to wait for it to become really drinkable. So I substituted the can of Coopers Bitter for a kg of BE2. And I added some lactose for increased body - it 'felt' a bit thin.

I also added some extra hops to mellow the extra sweetness from the BE2 and (less-so) the lactose.

For my first attempt at adding grains, I gotta say, I'm fully impressed. My house had the greatest smell in it all day long. I didn't want to put all the wort into the fermenter - it tasted good enough to drink on the spot. I'm officially a born-agrain brewer.....

Here's the modified recipe:

220g combo crystal, chocolate, and roast malt (stout infusion kit)
250g chocolate malt
300g Lactose
1 can Coopers Stout
1 can Toohey's Old
1 kg Cooper's Brew Enhancer 2
10ml liquorice extract
15g Willamette hops (from stout infusion kit)
20g Pride of Ringwood hops
330 ml starter of Coopers Pale Ale yeast

OG is an impressive 1072.

I'll most likely take Chris' advice and add the red wine yeast near the end of primary fermentation (which has taken off after only a couple of hours). And I'll be dry hopping with 10g Fuggles hops in the secondary.

Thanks again to all who have given advice on this.

PS. Is there a market for wort candy?