priming with other sugars

[Dogger Dan]

I have a bit of difficulty here.

There are flavour differences between adding honey during the mash and as a priming sugar. As the honey I use tends to be unpasturized, I need to do something in order to knock the bugs out. So I put it in the boil. It also will release the albumin.

Obviously, by changing the honey profile through heating will change the flavour. So depending where you add it will change the flavour.

I disagree with the unpredictability of using something other than dextrose. Any fermentable is very predictable, even if it ferments 10 prcent.

The long and the short, if you want to, please do, use a bit of common sense and give it a go.

Dogger

Dogger

[Hrundi V Bakshi]

Mr Dogger Dogger,

You seem to enjoy honey in your beer greatly. That is well and good, I have tasted a few honey homebrews that are quite pleasant. I think that it should be limited to the fermenter and not the bottle, however.

Some examples of questions one may encounter by priming with pantry items:

• What is the fermentability of Leabrook leatherwood honey?
  Does this differ to the Capilano that I bought from the local fruit and veg shop?
  If so how by how much and what is the required quantity of each for priming?
  
  If I require 2.5 volumes of CO2 in my 1.014FG Strawberry IPA fermented at 19°C, should I add one or two dollops of strawberry jam per stubby? I can't remember the brand but it has plenty of fruity chunks.
  
  I want to prime my next batch with plums. Are prunes more fermentable than dates?

I think it more civilised for these adjuncts to be allowed to stabilise and drop their by-products in the fermenter rather than in the bottle.

[Glen Michel]

Bakshi, I can visualise the public transport problems you have in Bombay and the great delight you take in sucking on a carbonation drop whilst being conveyed to your place of employment. Ah bliss... Regards .
, GlenM

[db]

i agree with dogger..

"What is the fermentability of Leabrook leatherwood honey?
Does this differ to the Capilano that I bought from the local fruit and veg shop?
If so how by how much and what is the required quantity of each for priming?"

we have a tool for measuring sugars in liquids its called a hydrometer used in combination with bulk priming & a sieve (or blender - to remove any "fruity chunks" etc) anythings possible

[Dogger Dan]

Just as an aside.

Measure the Brix if we want an exact science.

If you can't do that, as db suggests there is a hydrometer. From this you can calculate the solids, from this you can capture the change.

As someone mentioned. 200 grams of fermentables is insignificant. That being the case, I would suggest that the change in Brix and hence the fermentables, on 200 grams of honey, depending on the type of honey is also the square root of squat.

You are also trying to base this on a system that will achieve equilibrium.

I will still suggest, use a bit of common dog and try it.

Please, let me know how you make out.

Thanks

Dogger

[Sean Patterson]

Excellent discussion on what can be used to prime, but does priming affect things beyond the carbination level & slight taste change (if using honey or jam)? What I'm wondering is can the priming "sugar" effect the head retention and texture?

I've just put down a Newky Brown using a BrewCraft kit, 1kg Morton's Caramalt and 260gm of dextrose.

I'm hoping the caramalt will lead to a creamy head, but is there anything I can do in the priming process to help

[Hrundi V Bakshi]

I'm hoping the caramalt will lead to a creamy head, but is there anything I can do in the priming process to help

Some swear by wheat malt extract to add additional proteins for making of firmer head, but a well balanced recipe in the fermenter will not depend on what is used to produce carbonation.

I think your recipe, provided cleanliness was adhered to at all times will produce an ale with very fine head, due to only 10% of the fermentables being non-malt. Even with a dextrose primer your beer will be just fine, all else being equal. Without the disadvantage of additional sediment you would get if primed with wheat malt extract.

Measure the Brix if we want an exact science.

If you can't do that, as db suggests there is a hydrometer. From this you can calculate the solids, from this you can capture the change.

As someone mentioned. 200 grams of fermentables is insignificant. That being the case, I would suggest that the change in Brix and hence the fermentables, on 200 grams of honey, depending on the type of honey is also the square root of squat.

You are also trying to base this on a system that will achieve equilibrium.

Hands up all the homebrewandbeer brewers with a refractometer?

Another reason not to depend on the priming sugar for flavour, how do you make the same taste in a keg? Prime the keg with honey? This is an option, surely. Gotta love cloudy yeast honey beer.

However, if you have the equipment and are looking for a subtle alteration to your beer with later fermention flavour additions, then go for it. Some of my best friends prime with jam.

[Dogger Dan]

Guru

I seem to have been drawn into another useless argument. Nevertheless,

Try using the hydrometer for more than a fishing float

1. Take a known volume af water, add to it a known volume of honey.
2. Take a hydrometer reading.
3. Multiply the SG by the volume, this will give you a weight of the known volume
4. subtract the weight of water which is volume * 1000 and this will give you the TDS
5. Now, remove the weight of the water you added (Known volume * 1000) and this will give the weight of honey added.
6. Divide the TDS by the weight of honey and multiply by 100. et voila, BRIX of honey.

no refractometer required, just common dog.

So those of you who don't have your arm in the air because you don't have a refractometer, you can measure BRIX at home to.

Dogger

[Hrundi V Bakshi]

I prefer to just use 9g of dextrose per litre of beer for the handful of bottles that I don't keg. If you like adding another half hour to your bottling day, then good luck to you sir.

[Evo]

Why am I getting visions of the scene of Hrundi and "Wyoming" Bill playing pool and "pretend shaping up" in The Party ?

C'mon you two, just be "pardners".

...and sorry Dogger, not implying you are from Wyoming. Just alot closer to it than us.

[Dogger Dan]

I am sorry for those who have listened to it.

I do believe that brewing is not an exact science as I have often said earlier. Apply some common sense and go, so if you want to carbonate with honey, do so, if you want to use jam do so. By the way, if you prime a keg with honey which yes you can do, your first couple of glasses will have sediment. The remainder will be crystal clear.

Someone wanted the exactness, which was given, then told everyone you need a rather expensive piece of equipment to gain it then given an alternate methodology was good enough to explain that it adds all sorts of time.

Yes it does, the fact is if you want what was asked for in earlier posts, you need to measure and calculate. Things are not impossible, they are however sometimes time consuming.

By the way, thanks for the 9 grams of Dex per litre, I was using 15 mls per litre, only because my weigh scale isn't that sensitive so I had to to do the time consuming calculations.

Dogger

[Jay]

Nothing ventured nothing gained I say.

I'm gunna give some alternatives the go...if they don't taste any differentr then so be it.

I'm one of those people that is always trying to fix the thing that aint broke

Jay.

[Evo]

So from that post, Dogger, I assume you have naturally carbonated a keg. I've often wondered about this. Would you recommend trying it or is whacking the ol CO2 onto it the go ?

[Dogger Dan]

Evo,

Put the CO2 to it.

It is way easier

Dogger