NS Ale - Will this work?

[inark]

Ok, well i wanted to start adding some grains to my kit beers as well as hops and wanted to make one with Nelson Sauvin.

I am using Beersmith to help me on this one as best i can, but wanted to know if this sounded about right?

Ingredients:
1 can of Thomas Cooper Premium Selection Sparkling Ale
240g of Carapils Malt (Weyermann)
250g of Carared Malt (Weyermann)
250g of Brewers Honey
60g of Nelson Sauvin
Wyeast 1214 - Belgian Ale

Basic Process:
Steep the grains for 30mins in 4litres of water at around 80deg C
Remove the bag
Add the can
Add the Honey
Add 20g of NS
Add another 30g of NS @ 30 mins
Add 10g @ last 10 mins
Add the water

Cool and then pitch?

According to BM this should have IBU bitterness of around 58? with an alcohol content of around 5.55%?

[timmy]

I'd tend to add the NS at 15 and 5 mins instead of the longer boil you intend to do. That way you'd get more of the flavour and aroma. Especially if you dry hop as well. If it was me I'd add 20g at 15mins, 20g at 5 mins and dry hop the rest.

I would also tend to add the kit + honey at the end of the boil so you don't lose the aroma they already have.

Be very interested in hearing the outcome.


Cheers,

Tim

[drsmurto]

Drop the carapils, this shite is more overrated than low carb beer.

No need for 2 lots of crystal malt. Carared with work well.

As for the Nelson Sauvin, its very high AA so i would be adding it right at the end

Are you missing some malt somewhere or only making 10L?

No way you can get 5.55% (assuming its ABV not ABW) with those ingredients in 20 odd litres.

For 20L you need 1kg of LDME. You could even go the coopers liquid wheat malt which is actually only 50/50 wheat/barley for something more summer like.

Steep the cracked grain in water no more than 80C, preferably closer to 65C (2 parts boiling water, 1 part cold tap water) for 30-60 mins. Drain.

Bring this liquid to the boil and add hops but i would be boiling them for no more than 10 mins.

Ideally - 20g at 10 mins, 20g when you turn off the heat. Add the honey. Let it sit for another 5 mins then strain into your fermenter. Add the kit, mix it up and then top up to desired volume.

Not sure on your choice of yeast - why a belgian? If you havent already bought it i would KISS and just use US05 or nottingham or if you want to go liquid, 1056, 1272 or a clean english yeast such as 1028.

[inark]

Thanks guys...
Yeah sorry, i left out the LDME... i was actually going to use 1.5kg.
So if i only use the carared should i use double the amount to 450-500g?

Ok so grains for between 30 and 60 mins... add the hops and boil for 10 mins turn off then add the rest, add the honey, sit it in the ice bath for a few mins then dump it into fermenter THEN add the can... and then when i transfer later to the second fermenter i can dry hop? I have a spare 20g of Saaz pellets in my freezer maybe i can chuck them in.

only reason i was going to use a Belgian cause i thought the OG for it would be around 1.050 and it said Belgians were good for high OG... i havent used Liquid yeasts before because my local BS doesnt have any cause they never sold, so will be getting most of these ingredients online and will give it ago. What about something like the Wyeast 1318 London Ale III?

So to recap:

Ingredients:
1 can of Thomas Cooper Premium Selection Sparkling Ale
450g of Carared Malt (Weyermann)
250g of Brewers Honey
1kg LDME
40 of Nelson Sauvin
20g of Saaz
Wyeast 1318 London Ale III or Wyeast 1028 London Ale

[drsmurto]

No, only use 250g of carared in a full batch size.

I'm still a tad confused at your hop/yeast combination.

What sort of beer are you aiming for?

Saaz (cezch saaz, not the NZ versions B and D Saaz) is usually reserved for pilsners. Never tried it in an ale.

If you stick with all Nelson Sauvin then either of those yeasts will be fine.

Steep the grains for 30-60 mins AND THEN DRAIN. Dont boil the grain.

Take the liquid from steeping the grain and bring that to the boil. Add half the NS and boil for 10 mins. Turn the heating off and add the rest of your NS. The rest is fine.

1.050 isnt a high OG, its actually pretty normal and gives you a beer in the 4.8-5.2% range. Any yeast can handle that.

[Bizier]

My 2c is to reiterate Dr S's US05 or possibly Nottingham, but preferably the US05. It will allow you to taste the Nelson Sauvin, it is a very clean 'fruit' that is showcased well by a clean, simple beer - that is why Knappstein Reserve works so well, it is a very clean lager. I have made the mistake of making a beer with NS (on top of a kit) that tasted too murky, and I just should have used another hop. I think any fruity or spicy phenolic yeast will compete with that hop, and take the edge off both.

If you are going with the Thomas Coopers Sparkling can with an English yeast, I'd either use a UK hop like Goldings or Fuggles, or alternatively use a touch of POR. Trad Czech Saaz might be good also.

My instinct is if you wanted to use Nelson Sauvin in a kit ale, use one of the Cerveza cans (least flavourful and lightest can) and US05, possibly a can of light liquid malt, or 500g LDM + 500g sugar. I find that LDM is quite dark and in my experience often doesn't attenuate enough.

Maybe mix Knappstein and Leffe and Coopers Sparkling and see if you like it.

This is all just opinion. Your brew, your recipe, go nuts.

[inark]

Ok then for my first attempt ill stick with all NS and go the US05... will still use the Sparking Ale for this one... will try the mexi-can next.

to be honest im just flying by the seat of my pants to create something nice. The last one i made in similar turned out to be an absolute gem (Coopers Wheat kit with Goldings, Fuggles and crushed corriander, honey and LMDE with a Belgian Yeast)...

obviously i still have no idea yet of what is meant to go with what or what each thing does but i am learning slowly.

will let you know how it turned out.

[Hopmeister]

Personally I wouldn't use the Sparkling Ale. There are enough complex flavours in there already, such that you may end up with something quite funky.

Harvest some Coopers bottle yeast and ferment the Sparkling Ale exactly as the can instructs. It's a winner, and a house favourite here.

The Coopers cerveza would be a much better base for NS experimentation, as it's quite neutral.

[drsmurto]

Personally I wouldn't use the Sparkling Ale. There are enough complex flavours in there already, such that you may end up with something quite funky.

Harvest some Coopers bottle yeast and ferment the Sparkling Ale exactly as the can instructs. It's a winner, and a house favourite here.

The Coopers cerveza would be a much better base for NS experimentation, as it's quite neutral.

Not a chance, shitty pants.

The can instructions are the reason so many people end up wit funky smelling and tasting beers.

Check out the stickies at the top of the Making Beer section...............

[inark]

I dont think ive ever followed those instructions... mainly cause non of the forums and tutorials ive seen from seasoned homebrewers are not the same.

I will however go for the cerveza seeing as i got a couple on the cheap from BigW today.

[earle]

For my NS ale I used a Morgans Blue Mountain Lager kit. I have read that Knappstein also has some Hallertau (this kit is supposed to have some also). I was originally planning a lager but due to temperature did an ale instead, I figured the hop combination should be fine either way.

[inark]

Hi Earle, how long ago did you put it down and how did it end up?

[earle]

Just checked my records and it was actually a Coopers Euro lager. I was planning on using the Blue Mountain Lager but ended up going with the euro because I had it on hand. 1.5kg morgans extra pale malt and 500g dry wheat malt. The wheat malt and NS hops have developed great flavours since I bottled it in September.

Now that I have the brewing fridge going I'm planning a NS lager and have purchased a blue mountain lager, 1.5kg morgans extra pale malt and craftbrewer swiss lager yeast. Aiming for a nice clean beer to showcase the hops.

[Bizier]

Ha! I brewed a Coopers Euro can + NS + Swiss Lager a couple of months ago. Brilliant minds brew alike. ed. (kinda)

I pitched one craftbrewer sachet direct (must have been in a rush) and it didn't attenuate as well as it should have.

[James L]

I thought i'd give this a go last friday...

26L batch...
5.3kg ale
0.5kg munich
0.3kg wheat

66C mash temp.
1054 OG (75% efficiency).

40g Perle (6.8%, 60 mins)
15g Amarillo (8.2%, 30 mins), 15g NS (13%, 30 mins),
20g Amarillo (8.2%, 0 mins), 20g NS (13%, 30 mins)...

35 IBUs.

1056 starter...

smelt good... I chucked it into the incubator next to the smoky porter...

[inark]

ok wll it took me a while to get around to doing it but i put it down 8 days ago.

Final list of ingredients:
1 Can of mexican cerveza
250g of carared
40g of NS Hops
250g of Honey
1kg LLME
Wyeast American Ale

This is the process i used:

5litres water added to the pot.
Water temp bought to between 65 and 75
Carared grains were added in the sock for 45mins.
Liquid was brought to the boil and added 20g of NS Hops.
10 mins later the heat was turned off and the rest of the hops were added
Left for 5 mins.
Added the Honey.
Placed in the ice bath for 10 minutes.
added 6litres of water to the fermenter.
Strained the wort into the fermenter.
Topped up with more filtered water to the 23 litre mark.
Added the yeast.

I emptied some into the hydrometer container today to take a reading... OG was 1.042 and the reading today was 1.012 which works out to about 4.5 by the time its bottled etc? I tasted it and it almost smelt like passion pop lol... extremely fruity aromas, much more then i was expecting, tasted very sweet. Seems like a very summery beer...

Im going to bottle condition it rather then bulk prime in a secondary because the last bulk i did ruined it... dont wanna take the chance with this one cause it should be ready in time for my birthday and all of my bottle conditioned beers have been a success and very clear so dont see the point.

[Bizier]

I think you might have the racking for bulk prime/secondary a little mixed up.

Here are the definitions as I understand them:

Bulk Prime
Racking to another vessel with an amount of sugar that equals the total that you want to be in the bottles. This is bottled quickly after. The advantage is that you measure one large amount of sugar, so it is more accurate, and as it is mixed though the whole vessel. You can also use different sized bottles without calculating the different amounts of sugar needed per bottle, as it is uniform throughout the brew.

Secondary fermentation
Racking to another brewing vessel and letting it ferment for longer without the yeast cake and various solids that have settled (trub) from the primary fermentation vessel.

Bottle conditioning
Simply bottling with some live yeast in the bottle. This can be filtered beer with live yeast added, or just using the yeast that is already suspended in the fermenting beer.

Im going to bottle condition it rather then bulk prime in a secondary because the last bulk i did ruined it... dont wanna take the chance with this one cause it should be ready in time for my birthday and all of my bottle conditioned beers have been a success and very clear so dont see the point.

I am unsure what process you are referring to here.

[inark]

nah i just worded it poorly.

Im going to bottle condition it rather then bulk prime in a secondary because the last bulk i did ruined it... dont wanna take the chance with this one cause it should be ready in time for my birthday and all of my bottle conditioned beers have been a success and very clear so dont see the point.

Should have read something more like this:

Im going to bottle prime it rather then bulk prime, because the last bulk i did ruined the beer... dont wanna take the chance with this one cause it should be ready in time for my birthday and all of my bottle primed beers have been a success.

The last one i did is almost flat... if it carbonated it would be a good beer cause it tastes like it would be nice if it wasnt flat.

[Bizier]

Yep, I'd say carb on the high side will go well if it is fruity, otherwise it might seem too sweet.

I prime with between 50-200g sugar per batch depending on the style, and it is usually predictable and accurate enough.

[Hopmeister]

Not a chance, shitty pants.

What I meant was to use the ingredients as specified on the tin.

I agree that Coopers fermentation instructions can be improved upon, particularly with regards to temperature.

Is that your point of contention DrSmurto?