For a fact, I haven't previously had problems about sanitation, except for the one batch 20 years ago that I mentioned above. It seems to me that if this problem only started this year, when I started racking my brews, then it likely relates to racking rather than sanitation. I guess the air getting in when I rack is either not being purged completely, or is being purged slowly enough for mould to form. Either way, the suggestion about adding a little bit of sugar while racking sounds reasonable.
Really, I'm not sure I want to increase my sanitation level. I'm already getting complaints from the dear little wife about "You never scrub the dishes the way you scrub your beer things! You don't love me anymore!" Which is not a comment I know how to answer, but I surely don't want to agrevate it.
And ryan, mate , don't worry. I'm not about to bin any beer unless its really foul. When I open this one, I'll give you a blow by blow description of what it tastes like. Hey, people pay good money to eat mouldy cheese, why not mouldy beer?
Theres something hairy growing on me beer!
Re: Theres something hairy growing on me beer!
Buy her a dishwasherlongbody wrote:Really, I'm not sure I want to increase my sanitation level. I'm already getting complaints from the dear little wife about "You never scrub the dishes the way you scrub your beer things! You don't love me anymore!" Which is not a comment I know how to answer, but I surely don't want to agrevate it.
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Trough Lolly
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Re: Theres something hairy growing on me beer!
I don't think it's an issue related to "purging air when you rack". Where do you boil / chill / rack to the fermenter and then ferment the beer? The mould may be present somewhere along that path and despite your relentless scrubbing, all you've done is created a clean platform for the mould to sit on.longbody wrote:For a fact, I haven't previously had problems about sanitation, except for the one batch 20 years ago that I mentioned above. It seems to me that if this problem only started this year, when I started racking my brews, then it likely relates to racking rather than sanitation. I guess the air getting in when I rack is either not being purged completely, or is being purged slowly enough for mould to form. Either way, the suggestion about adding a little bit of sugar while racking sounds reasonable.
Really, I'm not sure I want to increase my sanitation level. I'm already getting complaints from the dear little wife about "You never scrub the dishes the way you scrub your beer things! You don't love me anymore!" Which is not a comment I know how to answer, but I surely don't want to agrevate it.
And ryan, mate , don't worry. I'm not about to bin any beer unless its really foul. When I open this one, I'll give you a blow by blow description of what it tastes like. Hey, people pay good money to eat mouldy cheese, why not mouldy beer?
For this reason, I would never brew in a confined space that doesn't have fresh air moving through it - like a converted mechanics pit...
One other commonly overlooked fact for those of us who use grain - if you crack grain then then brew immediately afterwards, the grain dust is just itching to get into the wort and infect it.
Cheers,
TL
Re: Theres something hairy growing on me beer!
Hi, mould scares always remind me of Mark Tatum, the American who's face was scooped out after an inflection from what was described as bread mould. Doctors gouged out his eyes, nose, top jaw etc. They built him a fake face, but there was a photo in the Sunday papers a few years back of the crater where his face used to be. Ever since I have been on perpetual high alert for mould.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Tatum
http://www.cbc.ca/asithappens/features/ ... ktatum.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Tatum
http://www.cbc.ca/asithappens/features/ ... ktatum.jpg
Re: Theres something hairy growing on me beer!
don't handle mouldy dough
Re: Theres something hairy growing on me beer!
I heard he drank directly from a mouldy fermenterNickMoore wrote:Hi, mould scares always remind me of Mark Tatum, the American who's face was scooped out after an inflection from what was described as bread mould. Doctors gouged out his eyes, nose, top jaw etc. They built him a fake face, but there was a photo in the Sunday papers a few years back of the crater where his face used to be. Ever since I have been on perpetual high alert for mould.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Tatum
http://www.cbc.ca/asithappens/features/ ... ktatum.jpg
Re: Theres something hairy growing on me beer!
Can't trust that hairy beer.
A beer in the hand is worth two in George Bush...
"They say beer will make me dumb. It are go good with pizza"
Psychostick
"They say beer will make me dumb. It are go good with pizza"
Psychostick
Re: Theres something hairy growing on me beer!
they broke the mould when they made him 
Re: Theres something hairy growing on me beer!
Hi folks.
An update on the tale of the dreadful hairy beer.
After I posted here, it got worse. I cleaned, I scrubbed, I sanitised, I added sugar when I racked, I ventilated till my face turned red. It didn't help, all I got was a workroom that smelled like a swimming pool, and beer that looked increasingly like Brie.
Eventually I got a batch that looked so foul I binned it without even bottling it. It was coated with white slimy looking bubbly stuff that looked like something you might see slithering down a polluted sewer, if you happen to live in a particularly disgusting part of town. Anyhow, I looked at it and I told myself "Its ok, mould on beer is not harmful". I had another look and I told myself "Its ok, mould is a surface infection, the beer underneath is perfectly wholesome". I had another look and I told myself "Its ok, a generation or two ago, all beer looked like this when it brewed". But I didn't believe a word I told me, and I tipped the whole batch down the gurgler.
So a fair thing is a fair thing, but this was a bit over the odds. This foul stuff was drinkin up me beer and not leavin any for me! This meant war! I go in with fire and sword, and take no prisoners! After consultation with a learned colleague, I determined on a course of action. I would stop brewing, move everything outside, then start scrubbing the floors, the walls, the ceiling, first with detergent, then with bleach, then with disinfectant. Then I would bring back my benches and shelves, one piece at a time, scrubbing and disinfecting as I went, and if I still had mould after that, I'd give up beer and open a cheese factory.
So when I moved my "cool room" (a big cabinet lined with styrofoam with a fridge set in one end) what do you reckon I found underneath ? Yeah, a thick round patch of mould, just the right size for a leaky fermenter, growing out of the concrete floor. Now, at last, it starts to make sense. When we moved here in the middle of '07, my brewing gear was mislaid in the middle of the Nullabor, and didn't turn up for 6 or 8 weeks. To keep the wolf from the door, I went down to KMart and bought a fermenter, and cans of goop, bags of dextrose, and boxes of PET bottles. Plainly, I sat the fermenter on the floor there, and it leaked, and later I moved it, and in the dim light didn't notice there was pollution. Normally, I sit my fermenters in drip trays, to avoid any chance of this problem, but at this time, my drip trays were in the same place as my fermenters, on the back of a truck somewhere between the east and west coasts of Australia. Then when my brewing gear turned up, I built my "cool room" there not realising this foul stuff was already living underneath it. And thats where it stayed for the next year, sitting in the darkness, thinking black thoughts, plotting world domination, and finally leaping forth to attack its first target, my beer!
Anyhow, I scrubbed it with detergent, then with bleach, then with disinfectant, then I soaked the whole area in neat Dettol, then I came back a couple of days later and did it all again. Lets see if the bloody stuff can live through that.
In hindsight, we can trace the course of this infestation. The original incident that caused it occured a full year before any symptoms became apparent. The first symptom was an occasional gushing bottle. I didn't even suspect an infection at that time, cos the beer was excellent. No sourness, no off flavours or smells, not flat , not strongly alcoholic, just good clean wholesome beer with a very occasional bottle that gushed everywhere. I thought that perhaps I was absent mindedly sometimes putting a dirty bottle in the rack with the clean ones, but now I see that because mould is a surface infection, when I bottled an infected batch, the last bottle was the one that got the infection, and gushed. Even when I found some brews with stuff growing on them, most of the brews the infection was so slight you wouldn't notice it. Just a slight oily trace on the surface that you wouldn't see unless you were looking for something wrong.
So I've started brewing again, my first 2 batchs are now in their vats, glug-glugging away, and in a few weeks I'll see if my cleaning was successful.
And the moral of this story is: Dear old mum was right after all! Cleanliness really is next to Godliness!
An update on the tale of the dreadful hairy beer.
After I posted here, it got worse. I cleaned, I scrubbed, I sanitised, I added sugar when I racked, I ventilated till my face turned red. It didn't help, all I got was a workroom that smelled like a swimming pool, and beer that looked increasingly like Brie.
Eventually I got a batch that looked so foul I binned it without even bottling it. It was coated with white slimy looking bubbly stuff that looked like something you might see slithering down a polluted sewer, if you happen to live in a particularly disgusting part of town. Anyhow, I looked at it and I told myself "Its ok, mould on beer is not harmful". I had another look and I told myself "Its ok, mould is a surface infection, the beer underneath is perfectly wholesome". I had another look and I told myself "Its ok, a generation or two ago, all beer looked like this when it brewed". But I didn't believe a word I told me, and I tipped the whole batch down the gurgler.
So a fair thing is a fair thing, but this was a bit over the odds. This foul stuff was drinkin up me beer and not leavin any for me! This meant war! I go in with fire and sword, and take no prisoners! After consultation with a learned colleague, I determined on a course of action. I would stop brewing, move everything outside, then start scrubbing the floors, the walls, the ceiling, first with detergent, then with bleach, then with disinfectant. Then I would bring back my benches and shelves, one piece at a time, scrubbing and disinfecting as I went, and if I still had mould after that, I'd give up beer and open a cheese factory.
So when I moved my "cool room" (a big cabinet lined with styrofoam with a fridge set in one end) what do you reckon I found underneath ? Yeah, a thick round patch of mould, just the right size for a leaky fermenter, growing out of the concrete floor. Now, at last, it starts to make sense. When we moved here in the middle of '07, my brewing gear was mislaid in the middle of the Nullabor, and didn't turn up for 6 or 8 weeks. To keep the wolf from the door, I went down to KMart and bought a fermenter, and cans of goop, bags of dextrose, and boxes of PET bottles. Plainly, I sat the fermenter on the floor there, and it leaked, and later I moved it, and in the dim light didn't notice there was pollution. Normally, I sit my fermenters in drip trays, to avoid any chance of this problem, but at this time, my drip trays were in the same place as my fermenters, on the back of a truck somewhere between the east and west coasts of Australia. Then when my brewing gear turned up, I built my "cool room" there not realising this foul stuff was already living underneath it. And thats where it stayed for the next year, sitting in the darkness, thinking black thoughts, plotting world domination, and finally leaping forth to attack its first target, my beer!
Anyhow, I scrubbed it with detergent, then with bleach, then with disinfectant, then I soaked the whole area in neat Dettol, then I came back a couple of days later and did it all again. Lets see if the bloody stuff can live through that.
In hindsight, we can trace the course of this infestation. The original incident that caused it occured a full year before any symptoms became apparent. The first symptom was an occasional gushing bottle. I didn't even suspect an infection at that time, cos the beer was excellent. No sourness, no off flavours or smells, not flat , not strongly alcoholic, just good clean wholesome beer with a very occasional bottle that gushed everywhere. I thought that perhaps I was absent mindedly sometimes putting a dirty bottle in the rack with the clean ones, but now I see that because mould is a surface infection, when I bottled an infected batch, the last bottle was the one that got the infection, and gushed. Even when I found some brews with stuff growing on them, most of the brews the infection was so slight you wouldn't notice it. Just a slight oily trace on the surface that you wouldn't see unless you were looking for something wrong.
So I've started brewing again, my first 2 batchs are now in their vats, glug-glugging away, and in a few weeks I'll see if my cleaning was successful.
And the moral of this story is: Dear old mum was right after all! Cleanliness really is next to Godliness!
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Trough Lolly
- Posts: 1647
- Joined: Friday Feb 16, 2007 3:36 pm
- Location: Southern Canberra
- Contact:
Re: Theres something hairy growing on me beer!
I applaud your perseverance! I applaud your ability to find what's most likely the cause of your problems....but I would have moved to a new brewing space months ago!
Good luck.
TL
Good luck.
TL
Re: Theres something hairy growing on me beer!
Fingers crossed you wont have any more problems....
But if you want to increase your chances of infection free beer STOP RACKING IT.
Unless you have a real need to change vessels, all you are doing is increasing the chances of this sort of infection.
Cheers Ross
But if you want to increase your chances of infection free beer STOP RACKING IT.
Unless you have a real need to change vessels, all you are doing is increasing the chances of this sort of infection.
Cheers Ross
Re: Theres something hairy growing on me beer!
Unless of course you rack BEFORE the end of fermentation into a well sanitised vessel...Ross wrote:Fingers crossed you wont have any more problems....
But if you want to increase your chances of infection free beer STOP RACKING IT.
Unless you have a real need to change vessels, all you are doing is increasing the chances of this sort of infection.
Cheers Ross
I agree racking is usually a waste of time, and not worth the risk.
Re: Theres something hairy growing on me beer!
G'day Ross.
By and large I agree with what you're saying about racking. For 20 years I didn't rack at all. Last year I racked most batchs. The results are unimpressive. There was certainly no improvement in beer quality, and I got a major infection. On the other hand, the infection wasn't caused by racking, but by an unnoticed spillage a year before. You could say the racking was beneficial in bringing the infection out into the open before it got lots worse.
Even though racking was not the primary cause of infection here, I agree that racking is an infection risk that doesn't seem to have much benefit to justify it.
By and large I agree with what you're saying about racking. For 20 years I didn't rack at all. Last year I racked most batchs. The results are unimpressive. There was certainly no improvement in beer quality, and I got a major infection. On the other hand, the infection wasn't caused by racking, but by an unnoticed spillage a year before. You could say the racking was beneficial in bringing the infection out into the open before it got lots worse.
Even though racking was not the primary cause of infection here, I agree that racking is an infection risk that doesn't seem to have much benefit to justify it.
Re: Theres something hairy growing on me beer!
would you agree though Ross that you may need to rack if you are using a lager yeast and fermenting at lower temperatures for longer periods, and so potentially inviting autolysis?
Re: Theres something hairy growing on me beer!
I agree with Ross.
I normally don't rack my ales at all, and leave them in the primary fermenter for generally about 2 weeks before bottling straight from primary.
The exceptions are:
1.to lager a beer.
2.to cold condition a brew for any length of time, such as Trough Lolly's Pikantus clone.
I normally don't rack my ales at all, and leave them in the primary fermenter for generally about 2 weeks before bottling straight from primary.
The exceptions are:
1.to lager a beer.
2.to cold condition a brew for any length of time, such as Trough Lolly's Pikantus clone.
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Trough Lolly
- Posts: 1647
- Joined: Friday Feb 16, 2007 3:36 pm
- Location: Southern Canberra
- Contact:
Re: Theres something hairy growing on me beer!
...how would you be inviting autolysis? There are a number of factors other than fermentation temp that can lead to yeast autolysis and if it were common, I'd never be able to use the 3+ months old lager yeast slurries that I store in my fridge.NickMoore wrote:would you agree though Ross that you may need to rack if you are using a lager yeast and fermenting at lower temperatures for longer periods, and so potentially inviting autolysis?
Cheers,
TL
Re: Theres something hairy growing on me beer!
not the temperature per se, but the effect it has in lengthening fermentation.
Re: Theres something hairy growing on me beer!
what i want to know is did longbody get a dishwasher