General homebrew discussion, tips and help on kit and malt extract brewing, and talk about equipment. Queries on sourcing supplies and equipment should go in The Store.
Do a 5L boil, add 1/3 of one of the LME tins to the boil.
Add 20g Centennial
10 mins later 40g Amarillo
10 mins later 40g Amarillo
Turn off
After the boil is done into the fermenter, add the rest of your LME and the Dex
cool and pitch US-05
a great beer!
You'll want to wait another ten minutes after the last hop addition before turning the heat off.
I also dump the rest of my ingredients (so, in this case, the rest of your malt and your dex) into the boil with about five minutes to go, too, just to sterilise those.
This is a good recipe. I made it with Nottingham and it goes down a treat.
oh yer after the last amarillo hops leave for 10 mins and flame off.
Will add the dex with 5 mins to go in the boil also. Tip into fermenter then rest of the LME can/s.
drsmurto would definatly be keen! ill have to give you my email and you can email anytime your doing one.
would be awsome to see!
adz2332 wrote:this is what im running with
After the boil is done into the fermenter, add the rest of your LME and the Dex
cool and pitch US-05
Be sure to use a hose to transfer while hot, do not introduce oxygen Hey!
Best to cool before transfer if you can!
Cheers, Mick.
oh bugger! whys that?
as i just tipped it straight from the oan to the fermenter???
Why? To prevent a thing called "hot side aeration".
Aeratin of hot wort will cause the oxygen to bind to various wort compounds. Over time these compounds will break down, freeing atomic oxygen back into the beer, where it can oxidise the fatty acids and alcohols, producing off flavours and aromas like wet cardboard or sherry. The generally accepted temperature cutoff for preventing hot wort oxidation is 27ºC.
(Once again Palmer's trusty How to Brew book 3rd edition comes to the rescue).
Cripes Warra! I just read your last post and I'm freaking out! You say not to aerate the hot wort - but what I've been doing all this time ( and according to kit directions) is to pour the can and other fermentables into the fermenter, pour 2 litres of boiling water onto that and give a good stir (thereby aerating) to dissolve, and then pouring jugs of cold water onto the mixture to top up, making sure I aerate heaps whilst pouring. Is that all wrong then??? Would that explain my "yucky brews" in my previous thread? That is how the Coopers directions tell you to do it. Should I be dissolving the kit and fermentables separately, then cooling, before putting into the fermenter?
Just read this on "Oliver & Geoff's How to Brew" as well:
"Kit brewing
Place the can of beer mix and any liquid malt in a sink of hot water to let it warm up so it's easier to pour.
Boil about two to four litres of water in your saucepan or boiler.
Add the malt, sugar, glucose or other soluble ingredients and bring the contents back to the boil. Be careful, especially with liquid malt, that the ingredients do not catch on the bottom of the pan. Boiling the malt extract (there's no need to boil the other sugars) for at least an hour is a good idea, as it causes protein, which can cause hazy beer, to come out of solution.
Turn off the heat, add the can of beer and dissolve.
Put some cold water in the fermenter and add the malt mixture. Fill up the fermenter with water. The more splashing the better, as this will dissolve oxygen which the yeast needs."
Presumably putting the cold water in the fermenter before adding the malt mixture is to cool it down before aerating. Is that right? But it doesn't say anything about cooling it first or using a tube to transfer into the fermenter. Or any warnings about not aerating the hot wort.
I have been reading a bit of the 'Palmers' Book everybody talks about here (How to Brew).
It seems that there are 2 important but simple things about aeration...
1- NEVER aerate while its hot, ie, no excessive stirring or splashing.
2- Cool your wort as quick as you can to below 27 deg, and then when you add it to the fermeter, aerate as much as you can.
You can stir / splash as much as you like, as long as its cooled, and the more the better. (being careful to keep it all clean).
Seems lots of people use air stones and other devices to earate the wort before they add yeast.
In our terms, its got something to do with the way yeast eats sugar in different stages, and how the yeast prepares itself early on as it starts to ferment the wort.
I recommend you buy the book, its written so that basic and advanced people can get good value from it.
It reinforced to me the importance of some brewing basics...
- Sanitation.
- NO aeration while the brew is hot.
- Cool wort as quickly as possible.
- PLENTY aeration of a cool brew before pitching yeats.
- Rehydrating yeast before pitching to get the fastest start possible.
- Pitch into the temperature it will be brewed at.
- Have good temperature control.
I've done 2 brews since I got the book, and just the taste at bottling seems better, cant wait to try a 4 week bottle.
Now I/m using Steepacs from TWOC in Perth for a bit of flavouring.
I make them up, freeze the juice and I have that as an ice block, plus more blocks of clean water ice to get the wort temp where I want it before pitching.
Dunno how much difference it makes aerating it when its hot, but it would be interesting to hear how yours go if you do it with no aeration until its cooled and pured in the fermeter.
Yes, I'm definitely going to try it for my next brew (even though I've done it the other way for 42 brews!). I'm still confused though - I just had a read of the Coopers website and their instructions definitely say to put the contents of the can and other fermentables into the fermenter first, then pour boiling water onto it and "give it a good stir" !! Surely this is aerating it? And then you pour the cold water onto that hot wort with lots of splashing, which is aerating it even more while it's still hot. But if Palmer says not to..... Anna
Think stirring a pot of soup as it's coming to the boil versus whisking cream or eggs. One is gentle, the other vigorous.
So you stir in the contents of the can of goo to make sure it's dissolved. You really should then add a few litres slowly to reduce the temperature a bit before dumping the rest in but i never did.
I recall pouring the cold water in from as high as possible to get a stupid amount of foam. It was almost like a competition to see who could get it to overflow!
And on the topic of a whisk..... it's an extremely effect way of aerating your wort as opposed to using the coopers white spoon.
Well, damn it all, wouldn't you think the various "Instructions" on cans, websites, etc. would make that clear? When it said "a good stir", I certainly have been giving it a good stir!!! I also fill the fermenter from a great height to see how much splash I can make. It's amazing that I've been brewing almost once a week for a year, reading HB forums every day, and this is the first I've heard of it! Might go a long way to explaining the strange tastes I sometimes get...
(We beginners need to have every single step spelled out to us I think! Anna
I've got a feeling this "news" is going to send shock waves thru the Newbies community! I'll report back with my findings, but I guess it will take about a month or so by the time my next brew is ready to drink.
(I did the bridge climb thing a couple of years ago - fantastic, eh?)
This isn't what has made the off flavours in the most recent brews, Anna. Aerating the hot wort, often referred to as HSA (hot side aeration) usually comes across as cardboard not the sour, metallic thing you're reporting. This isn't your answer here - nor is it an issue really, IMO. Everyone here who has done kits would have done at least a few brews doing something very similar without having significant issues. Sure, it isn't ideal practice and I'm sure it won't hurt to improve your method.
I'm a newbie too, and Bum's probly right, aeration may be an issue but not to the degree your problems have been.
still reckon you should try and get hold of the book, its a good read...
the bridge climb was awesome , and not as scary / difficult as i thought it would be.
highly recommend it to anybody...
Cardboard - sour milk - metallic - chemical - cheap lollies - beats me! I must be missing some taste buds or something, because I just can't say definitely which it is. I could say it tastes like any of those! But maybe you're both right, because it's only recently I've been getting this taste and I've followed exactly the same procedure (albeit wrong) for all previous brews, and they've been fine. Anna
(I have been reading the book on line for a while actually....)
i wouldnt say blunyly 'wrong' Anna,
maybe just slightly better to watch the aeration etc.
I cant comment too much anyway, coz i've only just started being aware of that, and my previous 6 brews are all not too bad.
But I know the rest will be better, because of that and temoperature control.
if you've had 40 odd brews come out ok, you are obviously not doing things pretty right.
it really does sound like contamination of some sort.
Often the cause of an off taste or infection is something really small and easily overlooked, and it can take you some time to track it down.
I had an issue with infections in some of my brews about 2 years ago. Although I brew AG, I eventually tracked it down to two things:
1. The little bottler thingy has a small rubber washer on the end of the prong inside the spring end which acts as a bottling valve. Mine had accumulated gunk, which had obviously collected over a period of time. I now totally dismantle all components of the bottler valve, clean and sanitise them.
2. I was using Bundaberg ginger beer bottles, with the original metal screw type tops. I don't think I was ever really able to properly clean the bottles and tops to a proper sanitary state. I no longer use them.
These two things resolved my infection issues.
One other thing is that I changed the tap on my kettle. I used to use a normal ½" ball valve one piece tap. That was until I boiled it one time, and when I wiggled the handle back and forth, some disgusting crud spurted out.
Now I use a SS 3 piece ball valve. It is dismantled after every use, and it is surprising how much crud gets captured in the inner workings of the valve. This crud can't be got rid of by rinsing a one piece valve, hence the 3 piece valve. Well worth the investment.
One other thing. When did you last dissemble the taps on your fermenter? Yes, you can dissemble them. All you need is a piece of dowel, open the tap about half way, insert the dowel, take firm hold of the tap, and give it a sharp firm tap on your work bench. It should come apart allowing you to clean it.
Aeration of your wort is needed to enable the yeast to multiply to a sufficient level to ferment all of the wort offered up to it.
Yeast likes to do two things:
1. It loves to procreate, but it needs oxygen to do this.
2. Once it runs out of oxygen, it will reluctantly look at consuming the sugars in your wort, converting it to alcohol and CO2, and various other by-products.
I tend to aerate my batches only when I'm ready to pitch my yeast, using an aqaurium pump and airstone. I take care to use a long enough hose from my kettle to the bottom of my fermenter to enable me to drain it without splashing at all. The reason is that I can't get my wort down below about 25ºC in summer using ambient temperature water in my immersion chiller. I place my fermenter in the fridge, until it is down to about 18ºC, either later that evening or the next morning. It is only then I aerate my wort and pitch my yeast. I prefer to pitch at fermenting temperature.
Oddly, I did brew a Hefeweizen a few months ago where I didn't aerate the batch at all. I did have a large starter of WY3068, and aerated that with a couple of litres of wort, and pitched the starter at high kraeusen. Turned out to be a great beer. I think the key was the large starter, which meant the yeast probably didn't have to multiply before getting right to work.
warra48 wrote: The reason is that I can't get my wort down below about 25ºC in summer using ambient temperature water in my immersion chiller. I place my fermenter in the fridge, until it is down to about 18ºC,
Warra,
Why not try a cheap pond pump in a bucket of ice water for the final few Deg's?
Recirculate the water from the bucket through the chiller & back to the bucket.
I find that 1 bag of ice is enough to get mine down from near 30 to 18, I only add 1/3 bag at a time, I just keep the water to a minimum (by removing some before the next dose of ice!
Anna
Anna
