Morgans Stockman Draught

[rohanbutler]

Hey all,

With what looks like some cooler weather coming up here in Vic I thought I might put a brew down.

As I'm a little new to all of this I thought I would ask for some guideance.

Here is what I have
1 Tin Morgans Stockmans Draught(use the yeast for the tin)
1kg Brewcraft No.15 LDME
1 pack Pride of Ringwood Hops

I had thought I would boil the Pride of Ringwood hops in, the LDME and Kit for some bitterness and then dry hop it with something else at the end.

How does this sound?
Suggestions for what to dry hop with at the end?
How much water do I need to boil it up with?

Any help is always greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Rohan

[Boonie]

Do you have any Cascade Hop?

Do you like bitter beer?

[rohanbutler]

Defintely like Bitter Beer (Saddly have to admit I'm Southwark Bitter fan which I can't get her in Melbourne)

Boonie, when would you add the Cascade Hops as I can get these I think though I need to call in a favour from my gf as she works near the HB store.

My readings also tell me that Pride of Ringwood is in VB (after I purchased it) which doesn't bode well for it?

[earle]

Hey Rohan

Cooler weather, that sounds nice. Lovely and stinky hot and humid up here.

When I boil hops in a small boil eg 6L I try to match the gravity of the final wort so I would add 6/23 of the malt. The gravity affects how much bitterness you extract from the hops.

[Ash]

My readings also tell me that Pride of Ringwood is in VB (after I purchased it) which doesn't bode well for it?

PoR is also in Coopers, it isn't as bad as people make out - just go easy on the amount of it

[rohanbutler]

Hey Rohan

When I boil hops in a small boil eg 6L I try to match the gravity of the final wort so I would add 6/23 of the malt. The gravity affects how much bitterness you extract from the hops.

So Earle as I'm a little new to anything above a K&K I think I need you to spell out what your saying here.

I gathered 1 of 2 things.

1) Are you are suggesting 6l of water and boil the whole lot togther (Kit, LDME and Hops)

2)Or are you saying I need to boil the hops seperatley only using an amount of water that when the hops is added would match the original specific gravity reading?

Thanks heaps,

Rohan

[Kevnlis]

Do not boil the kit. Some kits have flavour and aroma additions which can be boiled out of them. I always add the kit at flame out and then rapidly cool the wort in an ice bath. Add the POR to half of the LDME in 6L of water and boil for 60 minutes then add the rest of the fermentables at flame out.

[rwh]

He's saying to do this:

Take the volume of your boil, and divide it by your final volume (the volume you'll be topping your fermenter up to).

Say a 4 for a 23L batch: that's 4/23 = 17%

Now, take 17% of your fermentables, and add those to the boil, and then hop it as for the recipe.

What this does is make the concentration of sugars in your boil the same as for if you'd taken all of your fermentables, and all of the water, and boiled it. This is important because the concentration of your boil will affect the utilisation of the hops (i.e. lots of sugar reduces utilisation). You can't just use no malt either though, because the malt does in fact react with the hop compounds, so while boiling in plain water might seem like the most efficient use of your hops, you will in fact get a different flavour.

[Boonie]

He's saying to do this:

Take the volume of your boil, and divide it by your final volume (the volume you'll be topping your fermenter up to).

Say a 4 for a 23L batch: that's 4/23 = 17%

Now, take 17% of your fermentables, and add those to the boil, and then hop it as for the recipe.

What this does is make the concentration of sugars in your boil the same as for if you'd taken all of your fermentables, and all of the water, and boiled it. This is important because the concentration of your boil will affect the utilisation of the hops (i.e. lots of sugar reduces utilisation). You can't just use no malt either though, because the malt does in fact react with the hop compounds, so while boiling in plain water might seem like the most efficient use of your hops, you will in fact get a different flavour.

Well said rwh, great to see it in plain English.

Boonie, when would you add the Cascade Hops as I can get these I think though I need to call in a favour from my gf as she works near the HB store.

I'd go 15g at 60
15g at 30
10g at 5
Dry hop 10 at rack......

That should be bitter enough IMO and the 10 at dry hop and for 10 will bring the lovely cascade flavour through IMO.

Cheers

Boonie

PS Man there is some great advice on here........POR is not as bad as everyone says, I agree. Doc, rwh and Kevnlis, you've done this before ....There's many more on here with great advice, I'd like to list, but I'm going to have my tea now ......right lethal ya in there too

[earle]

Thanks rwh

My post was typed in great haste, not explained very well.

[rohanbutler]

Thanks guys. This all looks really good and I'm going to give it burl, just need the girl friend to pick up some Cascade hops! Any advice on what kind

One thing I noticed was that the PoR bag I have says its best used for aroma at the end (damn fine print steeped for 10mins in a cup of boiling water) Its a Morgans's green bag 12g i think(like a tea bag really).

But I'm figuring I'll just cut the bag open, drop them in and follow the far more detailed instructions listed here.

Do the hops need to strained out at any point?

[rwh]

When to add the hops is a question of what you're trying to achieve. Need increased bitterness? Add them at 60 minutes to go. Need flavour? Add them at 20 minutes to go. Need aroma? Add them at 5 minutes, 1 minute, or even add them to the secondary fermenter (dry hop). If you are following a particular recipe, then do what it says, and remember that sometimes less is more; you are going for balance.

Pride of Ringwood is an interesting hop, used primarily in Australia, primarily for bittering, but also for aroma. It has a very woody aroma/flavour, and you will recognise its influence in lots of good and/or bad Aussie brews. Coopers Original Pale Ale is exclusively POR, as is VB.

[rohanbutler]

Sorry RWH, going with Boonie's suggestion:

I'd go 15g at 60
15g at 30
10g at 5
Dry hop 10 at rack......

That should be bitter enough IMO and the 10 at dry hop and for 10 will bring the lovely cascade flavour through IMO.

So I'm assuming the PoR and the 15g of Cascade at 60and then add the Cascade at 30, 5 and rack.

Its really just a matter of wether or not I use the PoR in the tea bag situation for 60 minutes of boiling or cut it open and dump the pellets in with out the tea bag.

[Kevnlis]

Sorry RWH, going with Boonie's suggestion:

I'd go 15g at 60
15g at 30
10g at 5
Dry hop 10 at rack......

That should be bitter enough IMO and the 10 at dry hop and for 10 will bring the lovely cascade flavour through IMO.

So I'm assuming the PoR and the 15g of Cascade at 60and then add the Cascade at 30, 5 and rack.

Its really just a matter of wether or not I use the PoR in the tea bag situation for 60 minutes of boiling or cut it open and dump the pellets in with out the tea bag.

I think Boonies suggestion is great, but I would make one small change in accordance with rwh's suggestion change that 30 min addition into a 20 minute addition

[Boonie]

Sorry RWH, going with Boonie's suggestion:

I'd go 15g at 60
15g at 30
10g at 5
Dry hop 10 at rack......

That should be bitter enough IMO and the 10 at dry hop and for 10 will bring the lovely cascade flavour through IMO.

So I'm assuming the PoR and the 15g of Cascade at 60and then add the Cascade at 30, 5 and rack.

Its really just a matter of wether or not I use the PoR in the tea bag situation for 60 minutes of boiling or cut it open and dump the pellets in with out the tea bag.

Yeah, add the POR @ 60. You can add it as a teabag if you want as it is a little cleaner, but I'd cut it open. Last time I used one, I stirred so hard it broke the bag open anyway

[rohanbutler]

Thanks again guys its defintely going to happen!

[earle]

One thing I noticed was that the PoR bag I have says its best used for aroma at the end (damn fine print steeped for 10mins in a cup of boiling water) Its a Morgans's green bag 12g i think(like a tea bag really)

That's their suggestion, aimed at basic K&K brewers, and I think they probably have them on all their varieties of hops. You can use them for aroma or bittering anyway. If you plan in advance you could get your hops from Ross at craftbrewer. More variety, better price and most likely much fresher.

[rohanbutler]

Brewed the sucker up tonight guys.

Pitched the yeast at 26 degrees c.

Starting SG 1040

Beer looks very brown in the fermenter but is very light in colour outside. But I had a taste when i took the reading and it seemed fine (for completely unfermented wort)

What I have noticed is that a lot of my ldme or something has settled on the bottom, I debating wether or not to get my spoon out, sterilse and stir it up a bit.

[Kevnlis]

I debating wether or not to get my spoon out, sterilse and stir it up a bit.

Last resort. As long as it kicks off within 48 hours no need to do that.

[earle]

Could be hops settling in the bottom if they're in there loose. I reckon if there's undissolved malt extract or even dex in the fermenter it should dissolve into the solution as the brew progresses and the already dissolved fermentables are fermented. Something to do with diffusion and systems wanting to have equal concentrations throughout. I should be able to explain it better, but its been a few years since I taught high school chemistry and my heads full of other stuff now.