homebrewandbeer.com

Wise advice as usual Doc - thank you! I'll have to wait another week though, because I can only bottle on weekends. That will make doubly sure anyway. Good thing you said not to pitch more yeast - I was about to!

So the yeastcake will be OK to use, even though there may not have been enough in the beginning? (I thought it may have become too stressed or something to re-use. But I guess it's now multiplied a lot, huh?).

Tried that bottle of Draught yet?

Anna

drsmurto wrote: Don't under any circumstances add another yeast.

Thought that was a link and tried to click it

But yeah, I leave all brews to sit for 2 weeks in primary, so I'd second the Doc's advice to leave it a bit longer.

As for the SG going up, did you spin the hydrometer to make sure that it wasn't sticking to the side of the tube? I'm sure you already do this, Anna, but I always drain about half a cup out of the tap before I take my test sample, just in case there is any trub in there, as that can give you an incorrect reading.

Yep! Did all that Bullfrog! But thanks.

Day off here so am brewing.

Decided to try your beer Anna........

It's not infected, not even remotely.

I can see what you are on about with the fairy floss, it is sweet, cloyingly so.

My thoughts - it's a combination of a few things.

The all malt will fix your beer and make you a master brewer only holds true if you balance the extra sweetness with more hops. I alos suspect it is under attenuated which is leaving a sweetness to the beer.

It's not a bad beer but as you have discovered, its not a beer you want more of if a sitting.

I have re-read this entire thread and the thing that popped up that i hadn't noticed before is the size of the kit yeast. 7g. Good yeast (US05, S-04, nottingham etc) are 11.5g. These are the right quantity needed to ferment up to 23L of an all malt beer so the 7g is probably too low.

So the only change i can suggest to your brewing practices you have already made! There is clearly nothing wrong with your sanitation regime and you haven't fermented it at too high a temperature (leading to a cidery taste/smell which your beer doesn't have).

Use a good yeast rather than a kit yeast. If you want to add more malt then you need to do a small boil with extra hops. Use the kits that have a higher IBU or boil the hops for 30+ mins.

In saying that it's a sweet beer i still managed to finish the bottle!

Just tell your OH it's an irish red ale (Kilkenny) and he will be none the wiser! They are supposed to be a lightly bittered ale more balanced towards the malt.

I think once you taste the CPA with re-cultured CPA yeast you will never use a kit yeast again! That and the JSGA.

Cheers
DrSmurto

Oh Doc! You can't imagine what a relief your verdict is! I'm so happy to know it's not infected and that I was on the right track with thinking it was a malt/under-attenuation thing. I've managed to salvage the batch by blending it with some DA which turned out too smokey for our tastes. 3/4 Draught, 1/4 DA - makes a nice drink!

So, my learning curve is ever rising and I think now I know what to do to keep a beer balanced AND to use better yeast (which is what you've been saying all along). Dying to taste the result of my latest with the re-cultured yeast. Damn and bother though - this time I think I've overdone the hops! Still, the hoppiness will dissipate with age, right?

Congratulations by the way on finishing the bottle! (More than I could do! )

Thanks once again for your invaluable help on this.

Anna

BTW: I have tried your JSGA - it's my favourite!

And thanks again Doc. Sometimes I think we forget how much of an impact a single post can have on others. Your post has helped reaffirm the causes of similar problems in my own brews. Had a good laugh at the Kilkenny bit as I have been giving my dark sickly brews to an English friend who loves them and thinks they're a bit like Kilkenny . Thanks again to all the the other brewers who assist on this great site.

Hirns

Nice to see you now have a definitive answer to your issues, Anna. Nice work DrS.

From my point of view, my thoughts on those issues seem to have been along the right lines. The only thing I didn't specifically pick was the underpitching from using the kit yeast.

At least now you have answers, you can move forward with confidence with your brews. Obviously, your sanitation etc is all OK, as DrS didn't find any evidence of infection, so that's another plus!

Yes, Warra and Hirns - you were both on the right track, and I should have mentioned that! And Wrighty too actually. Ah, the voices of experience! And yes, it's a great relief to know I'm doing everything else right and I can go forward with more confidence. I'm now eagerly awaiting the results of my first CPA clone with harvested commercial yeast. Also put another 'Dr Smurto Cider' on yesterday, which is going great-guns.

Thank you to all who contributed to this thread - it has obviously been a big help to help to others as well as me. This forum really is the best!

Anna

drsmurto wrote:10 days isn't an issue, if it was me i would be patient and leave it another 4 days and see if it drops any further. Makes it an even 2 weeks in primary.

It may well be done. 1.014 gives 74% attenuation which is at the low end of the range you would expect form this yeast but since you started off with what i think is too small an amount of yeast then it may well be done.

So give it another few days, if the SG remains the same then bottle it as usual.

Don't under any circumstances add another yeast.

You have pure coopers yeast that you can reuse in the next few batches. If you mix another one in you may as well throw away the yeastcake.

Hey Doc - you still there? Another question re the above brew yeast cake: If indeed the yeast does give up at 1.014, how would it be possible to still use it for the next few batches (given that there is still sugar in the brew which it couldn't ferment)? I mean, if it couldn't ferment that sugar, how could it ferment the next brew? (The answer is probably obvious, but I don't get it.....)

Anna

The yeast will be fine to reuse and since it has multiplied in numbers there will be more than enough to ferment the next beer out fully.

It's a very difficult process to nail, gaining the exact same attenuation each and every time out of the yeast. One of the reasons why the big breweries have microbiologists working for them.

You will also find that reusing yeast will produce different levels of esters in subsequent batches. For one of my favourite strains (Wy146 - west yorkshire) i find that the 3rd, 4th and 5th batches produce the best beer. There are minor mutations between generations, pitching rates change as well as viability. All a bit too scientific for some but part of the reason why brewing excites me.

I would expect the next batch you use to go to a lower FG as you will be pitching a larger amount of very healthy yeast.

I'll just have to trust you!

Which brings me to yet another puzzlement: I recently re-used some US-05 yeast from a JSGA for a Dark Ale. I refer to the resulting brew as "Smoked Fish Ale" (for obvious reasons). The JSGA it came from was fantastic - the DA is currently being used to bitter my too-sweet Draught. Could the DA 'failure' be the result of yeast "mutations" ? It's not pleasant... but with my unsophisticated palate maybe it's supposed to taste like smoked haddock?

Sorry to be such a pain!

Anna

Remind me of the dark ale recipe, how much of the yeast you re-used in the next batch and your technique for getting it between batches.

I used the technique you outlined in a Sticky but I can't remember the recipe. I'll have to look up my records tonight and post tomorrow.

Did you add extra hops to the dark ale?

After the golden ale non hopped beers will taste bland.

Can't remember Doc. But certainly not bland - just a smokey-fish flavour! Let you know tomorrow.

drsmurto wrote:Did you add extra hops to the dark ale?

After the golden ale non hopped beers will taste bland.

OK Doc - this was my recipe:

Can Coopers DA
1 kg LDME
1 tsp cinnamon
250 gm yellowbox honey
20 gm Goldings at 20 mins (boiled in 2L water with 200 gm LDME, then cooled to 27 deg. C)
US-05 pitched at 20 deg. C
FG: 1.014 (didn't take OG I'm afraid)

No smoked fish included!

Anna

Cinnamon?

That is going to add a different flavour when combined with malt and hops.

How did you treat the honey and was it store bought honey or did you get it fresh from an apiarist?

Have you used goldings before? They can be quite florally

1. I got the cinnamon idea from the Coopers' website: Quote: "See if you're friends notice the 'something extra' !" (Sure did - but it certainly wasn't the cinnamon they noticed! )

2. "Treat the honey" ?? Just poured it in. Store-bought, Yellowbox.

3. No, never used Goldings before. But I definitely wouldn't call it a florally flavour.