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My technique is to ferment to completion in the primary. Usually I rack after about 2 weeks. I use a hydrometer to measure the OG and FG, but I don't usually bother checking for complete fermentation when racking - I just rack after about 2 weeks when an opportunity arises. I then let it rest in the secondary for another 2 weeks and once again bottle when I get the chance.

One of the advantages of racking in this situation is that I don't need to worry too much if it takes me longer to get round to bottling because the beer isn't sitting on trub, so it's not going to deteriorate much if it takes me a couple of extra weeks before I get to bottling.

In the case of my most recent bottling - a MSB two row lager + saaz - the extra few weeks it took to get round to it are probably only beneficial.

There's lots of yabbering on about the potential for infection, but it seems that most people find that with a reasonable amount of care, infections are pretty rare. In the specific case of racking after fermentation is complete, the risk is particularly low because virtually all the fermentables have been consumed and there's still pleny of yeast about, so stray bugs are going to have a hard time taking over - there's no food, and lots of competition. When racking before fermentation is complete the risk is slightly higher, but still not too bad because most of the fermentables are gone, and there's still lots of active yeast to out-compete any stray bugs.

I would summarize the body of evidence about racking and home brewing thus: If you're doing kits, extracts or partials, you probably don't need to rack, but so long as you're reasonably careful about sanitation, racking won't hurt either.

To paraphrase my son's Play School CD:

Rack rack rack if you feel you want to
Rack rack rack if you feel you can
Rack rack rack if you feel you want to
Rack rack rack if you feel you can



T.

The problem with waiting to rack until fermentation is complete is oxidation from the air in the head space. If the fermentation continues for a bit after you rack, the air is quickly replaced with CO2 which helps prevent both infection and oxidation.

This is something I'm not too sure on. I think there would be a sufficient amount of CO2 to blanket the beer when racking after fermentation. Surely there would even be enough dissolved CO2 dispersed from the action of racking. I wouldn't think that you'd need the CO2 to fill the whole of the headspace, only a layer above the beer.

As an interesting side note Dr Chris White, from Whitelabs, in a recent interview on the brewing network show (20/8/06) recommends only racking after fermentation is complete. It seems as though he too believes it could lead to problems with the fermentation finishing.
For those interested - http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/archive.php

I throw a couple of carbonation drops or a couple of teaspoons dex etc and rack on. Ive heard this helps kick fermentation off again. Plus prob helps to get that blanket of co2 back.

morgs wrote:I throw a couple of carbonation drops or a couple of teaspoons dex etc and rack on. Ive heard this helps kick fermentation off again. Plus prob helps to get that blanket of co2 back.

I have thrown another quality yeast in again if the Fg is too high and beer is cloudy and this has worked. I have only had to do this in about 2% of occasions but worth having a go. Throw in another 10g's of hops for aroma while you're going.

with adding hops to the racking fermenter, should you boil them first?

GIDDYUP wrote:with adding hops to the racking fermenter, should you boil them first?

I boil mine as the flavour and aroma comes thorugh more.

A mate at work has advised me to boil hops prior to racking. I shall be giving this a crack tonight as I have not racked in the past. Interesting to see the difference. I might try bottling a couple prior to the rack to see if the end product is different.

Ok, sorry about this question, but what is racking???? (I'm new)

Racking is the transfering of your brew from the primary to another fermenter ( secondary ) it is done to get your beer off the trub ( yeast cake) and also to invigorate the yeast and get a much more complete fermentation, also to stop any unwanted flavours being transfered by the yeast cake, simply creates a much clearer and better fermented end result

I've been looking all over the place for some good information on how to rack and to be honest I'm not having much luck. Can anyone provide some detailed instructions on how to do this or provide a link?

I'm not sure how it should be done, I would of assumed that it would be better not to have an open lid on the secondary. I know I should try to avoid splashing etc. Is simply done by sticking a hose from the tap to the secondary through an open lid?

Adzmax wrote:I've been looking all over the place for some good information on how to rack and to be honest I'm not having much luck. Can anyone provide some detailed instructions on how to do this or provide a link?

I'm not sure how it should be done, I would of assumed that it would be better not to have an open lid on the secondary. I know I should try to avoid splashing etc. Is simply done by sticking a hose from the tap to the secondary through an open lid?

Mr Damage sums it up nicely here http://www.homebrewandbeer.com/forum/vi ... php?t=2535

I personally havent tried the pinching thing.

Can I just throw a spanner into this whole racking thing?

The thinking now is it may be better not to rack, in fact the whole exercise could be of detriment. I know award winning brewers who simply do not rack at all, no, not even their lagers.

Will racking produce a clearer brew? Answer is no.

Will racking lead to a more complete ferment as many imagine? Answer is no.

The reason why not, well you are simply removing the beer off the yeast, the very things that turn all that sugar into beer. Those babies are there to look after the whole proccess for you. They set up their own little environment and it all takes care of itself. Leave it all alone, provide the right conditions, and you'll be rewarded with a lovely drop without doing any more than waiting.

Anybody ever tasted the dreaded autolosys which is meant to come from not racking? I've never seen anyone post anything anywhere complaining about it. Not saying it's not possible, but if it was a real concern, you'd think there'd be some postings. I heard an interview with Papazian I think it was, he's had the displeasure of tasting it once. Out of all the beers he's judged, you'd think that's a bit weird huh? And what about the yeast sitting in the bottom of the bottle after yet another mini ferment? How come this doesn't spoil things too?

Personally, I have no problems if one wants to rack or if they don't. But it isn't going to be a miracle maker for a brew.

If using fruit or other additions that you might want to remove, then racking can come in handy. But transferring from plastic to plastic with a normal brew, I just believe it's not worth the bother. Only time I use it now is for bulk priming.

I wanted to post this because it seems so many place such a high emphasis on racking off the yeast bed. In my opinion it's not important. If it's important to others I have no argument, but just wanted to present another view.

Cheers, Ed

Just to carry on with Eds comments

I rack for two reasons,

1. It moves me from a plastic fermentor in a glass fermentor so if things go wrong I can leave it there and not worry much

2. It moves things of the trub, especially proteins, which will overtime will dissolve back into the beer. I shift mine off after about three days in the primary, normally when the yeast cap drops.

I do concur with most of Eds comments though about clearing etc.

He and I will need to have a chat about the sediment though, my feel is that although viable, most of that cake has already gone into a dorment phase and the yeast that is doing you the favour of fermenting is that which is remaining in suspension.

Mind you in the past Ed has convinced me otherwise on several occasions, I am sure he will do it again here

Dogger

I'd have to disaggree on the sediment issue. After trying my first AG batch, I got comments from lots of people that although it was absolutley delicious beer, there was way too much sediment. My previous two AG batches wer racked, and I reckon they have less sediment in the bottles than some of my K&K brews.

That said, I've never tasted autolosis, or any other flavours that Racking is supposed to eliminate. But since racking is easy, and there are a few benefits, I rack.

I agree with DD, and I rack most of beers for the same reasons and I do it toward the end of fermentation, when there is still alittle amount of action.

Regarding adding hops to the secondary, no you don't have to boil them first, in fact boiling will drive off some of the aroma, which you are trying to add. According to Palmer, and he doesn't specifiy why, there is absolutley no risk of infection when dry hopping into secondary. It simply never happens are his exact words. (probably due to the processing of the hops and the alcohol content of the beer.

AC

Everyone, go read what Palmer has to say on racking. Please. There are pros and cons.

Section 8.4 Using Secondary Fermenters
Section 8.5 Secondary Fermentor vs. Bottle Conditioning
Section 21.2 Common Off-Flavors

As to why there is no infection risk with adding hops, I think it's got something to do with the hops being a preservative. But I'm not sure anyone really knows why. As Palmer says "Infection from the hops just doesn't happen".

I look at it like this:

John Palmer, the once biggest advocate of racking and the reason most people rack, doesn't rack anymore. Why? Because he now believes it can do more harm than good.

Jamil Zainasheff, the highly awarded US brewer and beer broadcaster, doesn't rack unless it's a fruit beer. Why? Again because he believes it can do more harm than good.

The top brewers in our club who place in national comps don't rack. Their brews are clear. Our top man makes fantastic Pils, and that's a style that should be crystal clear, will show up any brewing faults, and being a lager has to sit there on trub for a long time. It's not racked to secondary either. By the way, he uses a counterflow which by nature deposits more debris into the fermenter than using an immersion would.

The slurry contains about 25% viable cells by volume according to George Fix. The cells go into dormancy when the've done the job. The most viable of these cells are those toward the middle and top. ie. the last to fall out. So racking early like Dogger does is likely to provide enough cells to complete the job. And he will still get a solid cake of yeast at the bottom of the secondary because these cells too will settle out when their work is done.

I used to do the whole racking thing and thought it was improving the clarity. Turns out my practices were the things improving this, not the racking. It's possible that racking might shortcut the clearing proccess by a day or 2, but I'm not sure because I've never done a side by side comparison.

Any problems I've had with increased bottle sediment have been due to haste or yeast type. I wouldn't attribute it to not racking.

I can't comment on the protein aspect Dogger. As you know, most of our malts don't have the same levels as yours. But look forward to our next phone chat. Will see if I can dig up some info on it.

But like I said, I have no argument with those that want to rack. The title of this thread is "Racking, is it really worth it?". Just presenting my view

Cheers, Ed

I'm with Ed

The best sediment reduction technique is to store standing up & pour it in one go .................. clear as .......

Racking is just another step that risks infection & oxidisation

Maybe I'm just a lazy ar*se

My thoughts

Cheers

Ed,

I think Graham was saying something about protein being re-absorbed in one of his last couple of shows, does that sound right? If it isn't then it is another pod cast I can point you at.

Dogger