homebrewandbeer.com

Good to know. I've just some some calcs, and if Fuggles is ~4.5% aa then I'll have enough Fuggles to bitter it, but the flavour will no doubt suffer. I might need another trip to the HBS

out of having no desire to go HB shopping again, I'm going to go with Warra on this and not worry about it.

did some more calcs, the IBU should be 32 using 28L and 24g flavour hops for half an hour. I was aiming for 34-36, so that'll do me.

But will it weaken my flavour too much? Anyone?

Yes but only slightly but an IPA thats only 4 odd % abv is weaker anyway. I recall drinking this in Edinburgh a few times and its an easy drinking IPA, not the traditional style which is 50+ IBUs and closer to 6% abv.

i reckon 28L is the go. Do you have any other hops at all at home you could use to add some extra bitterness? Save the fuggles for flavour. You can always visit the HBS later on and you really should get some more hops for dry hopping.

Weaken the flavour because of the additional water? Yes.

Weaken the flavour because of the hops being boiled for longer? Yes

I do not believe in any additions between 60 and 20 min, 30 min takes away alot of the flavour you would get with a 20 min boil, and anything under 60 min is not efficient enough to make it worth adding the hops IMHO. I actually do not do any 60 min boils at all, I use an FWH addition and boil for the full 90 min, gives a bit of extra bitterness and comes out cleaner for me.

Kevnlis: So are you saying I should simulate the FWH through steeping the hops for 30 min then adding this at the start of a 20 min boil to refine the flavour?

drsmurto: unfortunately I don't have any more hops at home, but I agree I should grab some.

Chewie wrote:Kevnlis: So are you saying I should simulate the FWH through steeping the hops for 30 min then adding this at the start of a 20 min boil to refine the flavour?

Unless you boil the first addition fully then cool the wort for the steeping that would not be possible. I am not sure there would be any benefit to it but I have not heard of it being trialed. Always a first time for everything if you arer willing to do the work

right. obviously interpreted the FWH process wrongly. I was thinking I could pour some hot water into a mug with the finishing hops, leaving it for a 1/2 hr to simulate FWH- while I'm steeping my grain in a pot; then remove the grain and pour the mug into the pot, along with the liquid malt, increasing the temp to boil for 20 minutes. I thought that was what you meant?

Nope. First Wort Hopping is where you put the hops into your kettle, then do your mash and drain the runnings into the kettle. This means the hops are exposed to the freshly-converted wort pre-boil. This is important because the boil chemically modifies the wort so that it reacts chemically in a different way with the hop compounds. By the same token, there is no way to simulate this method if you're not doing all-grain batches.

so I've been thinking about this too much and I can't simulate it anyway! oh well....

Chewie wrote:just thought I'd update you all on the outcome of this post.

I do kit brewing, and decided on the following. I'll do a yeast starter tommorrow and hopefully brew on Sunday.

Thomas Coopers IPA
Morgan's Amber Malt 1.5kg
50g Crystal- for a bit of freshness
2 X Fuggles 12g Flavour
White Labs Edinburgh Ale
Irish moss

G'day Chewie,
IPA's are hard to make at the best of times - they're well hopped to balance the high malt content. My take on this recipe is that you'll more than likely end up with an English Mild rather than an IPA. The choice of yeast is good - for Deuchars. The reason why I'd call this a Mild recipe rather than an IPA recipe is balance....
To take this recipe up to IPA specs, I'd suggest you pick up some fresh hops from the brewshop - the teabags are not enough to give you the depth you want from hops in terms of bittering and flavour. Sure, you can use the teabags, but you won't get the same hop complexity that you can get from a 100g bag of fresh hop pellets, plugs or flowers - Goldings, Styrian Goldings, Fuggles, Northdown and Target are recommended.

50g of Crystal is bugger all in an IPA recipe - Steep at least 250g of crystal malt in 3L of cold water, slowly bringing the steep up to 70C over 30 minutes or so - move the grains to ensure the steeping water is well mixed through the grains. After 30 mins of steeping, drain the grains (use a grainbag and a colander) and you can drizzle 500ml of hot (not boiling) water over the grainbag to wash out any trapped sugars in the grainbag. The 3.5L of sweet liquor is now ready for a boil - and you can use the fresh hops in this solution to give you the necessary bittering and flavour additions that the tea bags won't give you. Don't add the kit or amber malt to the boil - all that does is reduce the effectiveness of the hops and since the kit is pre-boiled, you'd only be knocking out the hop aroma component of the kit. You can boil the sweet liquor and say, 20g of hops for 30 to 60 mins to add bitterness and flavour - the longer you leave the hops in the boil, the more bitterness you add - typically you do a 20 min boil and if you add hops at the start, you'll primarily add flavour - in this case, I'd recommend a longer boil to add bitterness as well as flavour to the final result. The kit and amber malt extract can be added to the fermenter, along with the boil (you might want to cool off the boil in the sink before pitching), topped up with cold water and it'll be ready for pitching the yeast once the wort is under 21C - avoid the temptation to pitch the yeast into the wort when it's above 21C...
Edinburgh ale yeast has a reputation of sometimes being a bit slow to start - aim for 18 to 21C and don't get impatient if you don't see signs of fermentation in the first 6-12 hours.
The extra effort in doing a mini boil with the crystal, using fresh hops for bittering and flavour are, IMHO, worth it. Good luck.

Cheers,
TL

Trough Lolly wrote:snip- Steep at least 250g of crystal malt in 3L of cold water, slowly bringing the steep up to 70C over 30 minutes or so

What is the reason for this? Never heard of that technique before.

There's no need to plunge the grains into hot water - you can just as easily add the grains to cold water and then gradually bring the pot up to 70C over 30-40 mins. We aren't mashing anything - so temperature is not a major issue - we're just rinsing the cracked crystal to wash out the maltodextrins and avoiding overheating the steep at the same time.
I was shown this technique years ago when I steeped specialty malts (by a highly regarded comp brewer) and it makes sense - when you add the grains to cold water and then bring the temp up, there's almost no chance of tannin extraction from the steep.

Cheers,
TL

Cool, just wanted to be sure there was not something I was missing. I usually do the steep in a thermos or 6 pack esky depending on how much grain I have. I just add enough hot water to hit 70C and then let it sit for 20-30 min with a couple stirs.

TL, only problem is that Chewie wants to clone Deuchars IPA which doesnt fit into the BJCP guidelines for an IPA. It is closer to an ESB or a mild IMHO. Its around 4% abv and very easy to drink from the handpull, not in your face hoppy. I agree that an IPA should be malty and hoppy.

Can anybody recommend a Wyeast liquid yeast for this ? Interested in giving this recipe a go ?

Thames Valley 1275 is a good one, I recently used it in an IPA.

Just thought I'd let you know what my final turned out to be. yes, I did return to the HBS and picked up 100g fridged fuggles hop pellets.

Started with a 30min steep at ~55dC. Yes, I know now I should've started from cold water, but I've only just read the rest of the posts.

Strained into a second pot- due to lack of stocking or grain bag, boiled for an hour, along with 10g Fuggles, and the 1.5kg Amber Malt. Added 24g Fuggles (not the teabags) at 20min to go, and irish moss at 10min to go.
Left in ice slush until it had cooled, added to fermenter along with water and the kit to the 28L mark, and poured in a 1L yeast starter at 22dC.

Having read the post by TL I should have not boiled the unhopped 1.5kg amber malt, and maybe gone a 1dC or 2 colder, but all in all I'm still happy with my effort. Out of interest, does not boiling the malt make a notable difference?

Did this on Sunday and looked in on it Tuesday, but there is no sign of fermentation yet- no bubbling air lock or CO2 rim at the top. My guess is this is a very slow fermenting yeast, but I haven't used it before. I'm not overly concerned. If theres no action after a week, then I might add more.

I'll post my results when I have some. Cheaper, less complex ingredient brews I've done have hit decent drinking after as little as 3 weeks after bottling. This one I'll try after 3 months, but more likely it'll be 6 months or so, so I probably won't post my results for a while.

Thanks for all the inputs.

Chewie

Nice work Chewie. Still suggest you dry hop this once its finished fermenting. A good healthy whack of fuggles in the order of 15-20g.

As you remember what this beer style is like, I see no reason not to follow the doctor's orders on this one

I have to agree it probably needs some aroma hops.