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Hey guys,

Really interesting thread.

I'm no expert here and will he happy to be told I'm wrong, but it is my understanding that you should be using a couple of different sanitisers to make sure that the nasties in your fermenter don't build up resistance.

A hypothetical example might be what it isn't killed by the starsan is killed by the bleach at the next sanitising, not allowing a population of starsan resistant bugs to build up. Though it will take a little while for the resistant population to build up.

I sure one of the more knowledgeable folks here can explain this, but it was an idea I thought was worth throwing out there in this discussion. Do any of the more experienced brewers that might be doing this have any suggestions on which two (Or more?) sanistiers are best to use?

Rohan

Every few brews I break my normal sanitise routine and give an extra rinse with water, a bit of vinegar and a dash of bleach (make sure you dont mix the bleach and vinegar straight, mix them into the water one at a time).

Otherwise my normal routine is a good scrub with unscented napisan and hot water, followed by a few good rinses, then I rinse with 1L of Iodophor and leave it to dry in the dish rack next to the sink. Right before I use it I give it a good spray (inside and out) with Iodophor then drain well and use ASAP.

Also as far as I am aware, I have never had an infection using this process.

Sanitisers don't really have a resistance problem as far as I'm aware. You're probably thinking antibiotic drugs. Sanitisers are just inorganic toxic compounds. They're toxic to all forms of earth-based life, and cannot be detoxified by a living cell.

Having said that, there are some forms of life that are more resistant than others (such as spores, which build a protective wall and go dormant). So nuking them with something else toxic certainly can't do any harm.

Yep Rwh you could be completely right, my background is Ag Science, so my understanding comes from weeds becoming resistant to certain herbicide groups etc, as well as antibiotic resistance.

As you suggest

rwh wrote: there are some forms of life that are more resistant than others (such as spores, which build a protective wall and go dormant). So nuking them with something else toxic certainly can't do any harm.

a two pronged attacked will be more efficient, but the question might be how much more efficient is it, and is it worth the cost and bother?

Oh and another idea, if you have a recurring infection issue and maybe try the dishwasher's heat cycle on the fermenter (if you have one), the heat should act as a steriliser? I know I scored some 2nd hand fermenters and the first thing I did was up end them in the dishwasher (top rack removed) and ran the dishwasher with out any powder etc, these fermenters have been working beautifully!

I use boiling water to rinse my kegs, and often use it in the fermentors (when I can be bothered).

My FIL has never used anything but boiling water to wash and sanitise his fermentors and bottles (also he has never removed the tap from his fermrntors, one of them is over 12 years old!). Never picked up on any sort of infection in his beers!

KEG wrote:it's only down to 1017, i'd expect it to finish lower. as a result, the yeast is still working - and won't readily drop out of suspension until it's well and truly finished

Ta mate, its still dropping (down to 1013 today).
Still a bit funny tasting though.
Fingers crossed.

spatch - what sort of temps are you fermenting at and what yeast have you used (ie, is it old, a starter or straight out of the sachet, smackpack, tube?)

Cheers,
TL

Trough Lolly wrote:spatch - what sort of temps are you fermenting at and what yeast have you used (ie, is it old, a starter or straight out of the sachet, smackpack, tube?)

Cheers,
TL

Brewed at 15-16 degrees, pretty stable - in an old dead fridge so kind of insulated.
Yeast was Saflager S-23 sachet with use by date of 5/09 from my local HBS's fridge, pitched at 22 degrees.
Been busy and checked gravity again today and its down to 1010 but still cloudy as anything.
Look forward to your thoughts..............

Ok, could you indulge me with an experiment?

Take 1 litre out of the fermenter - boil it for at least 15 minutes in a clean pot and then cool and decant it into a flask or clear vessel. Crash chill and leave it in a fridge for a few days - if it's clear, I have your answer...

Cheers,
TL

Trough Lolly wrote:Ok, could you indulge me with an experiment?

Take 1 litre out of the fermenter - boil it for at least 15 minutes in a clean pot and then cool and decant it into a flask or clear vessel. Crash chill and leave it in a fridge for a few days - if it's clear, I have your answer...

Cheers,
TL

Sorry TL, couldn't bring myself to do it! A litre, that 3 stubbies mate............
Bottled it today. FG 1009. Clears after sitting for 24hrs (wasn't when I originally posted).
Fingers crossed.

No worries spatch - I was thinking if you're gonna toss the batch, at least find out why....and for those interested, I was looking for wild yeast. I would recommend tasting samplers every week or so - you don't want a room full of infected bottle bombs trashing your good stuff, do you?!

Cheers,
TL