Coopers PaleAle : Saflager.

[Paleman]

Gday all, any thoughts from those that have made one or two good brews from a Coopers Pale Ale. Im going to do one with a Saflager yeast, now that our Southern winter favours these brewing conditions.

Also, any ideas of a finishing hop, maybe Cascade. Anyone tried this sort of thing. A summer beer to be made in winter. But im sure it isnt going to see even Spring unfortunately !!

[db]

yeah the p.a. with 20g of cascade + some crystal i have tried.. nice n easy brew. i havent tried it with saflager but i dont see why not. the yeast supplied with the can is apparently a mix of ale & lager

[Paleman]

Thanks db. The chrystal sounds interesting. Will give it a shot. The reason for the full lager yeast was to try and capture something close to a Coopers Pale Ale. A bit crisper, and less fruity. Also that hop that might add something a little floral as the market Pale Ale has. ( geez i sound like a bloody wine taster )

Anyway thanks for your thoughts. PM.

[db]

cascade isn't really gonna give you the same flavour as coopers pa imo.. more of a little creatures flavour.. undercover1 (i think it was) suggested hallertau on another post.. maybe this would be closer?

[Browndog]

First off I'm new to the forum so I better say hi, Browndog here, I'm a K&K Brewer and live in sunny Ipswich QLD but I am Blue to the bone (Go Joey).
Paleman, Coopers APA is one of my favourite kits, so far I have tried POW, Goldings and Cascade hops along with various combinations of dextrose and LME. I would have to say that POW is my favourite so far. I like a really hoppy beer so steep the hop bag in 750ml of boiling water for 10min or so then chuck the whole thing in the fermenter and top to 21L. My next set of experiments will be to add the hop tea at the racking stage and see how that affects the taste.

cheers

Browndog

[Oliver]

The reason for the full lager yeast was to try and capture something close to a Coopers Pale Ale. A bit crisper, and less fruity.

PM,

As long as you keep the brew quite cool (say below 16C or so) the ale yeast should not be able to be active, so the lager will do most of the work anyway.

Even if you raise the temperature a bit, you will probably find that you still get a fairly clean-tasting beer as the ale will be dominated by the lager (although some here would disagree that this happens, and say that only one or the other will survive).

Cheers,

Oliver

[The Brown Hornet]

Thought I'd drag this old thread back up as I've just managed to achieve what Oliver describes in the above post, albeit by accident.

I've just go my hands on a proper thermometer, where as in the past have relied, rather foolishly it would seem, on the stick-on one on the side of my fermenter.

I've just bottled a CPA that I brewed very simply with a Brew Booster 2 (Dex, LDM, Corn Syrup). It was in the fermentor 18 days at what I thought was a pretty constant 18-20 degrees. Now that I've checked against a decent thermometer, I find that I've actually brewed between 15 and 17 degrees for the duration - You bet I wondered why things were going so slowly.

The question is, have I in effect just brewed my Pale Ale with a lager yeast? At what sort of temps does that Ale Component of the yeast become inactive all together?

The inevitable question of what it tastes like will have to wait another week, but i am looking forward to seeing what it's like.

Cheers

[Grega]

Another new member here, hi guys.

The Brown Hornet, the stick on thermometer that came with my fermenter also displays a temperature 2 to 3 degrees higher than the stand alone thermometer I have located next to the fermenter in my insulated box.

I assumed this was because the brew, while fermenting, produces a small ammount of heat. Thus the stick on thermometer, being in contact with the fermenter, reads a tad higher than the ambient air temp.

What's the general consensus on this? Does the brew produce heat?

[Guest]

Another new member here, hi guys.

The Brown Hornet, the stick on thermometer that came with my fermenter also displays a temperature 2 to 3 degrees higher than the stand alone thermometer I have located next to the fermenter in my insulated box.

I assumed this was because the brew, while fermenting, produces a small ammount of heat. Thus the stick on thermometer, being in contact with the fermenter, reads a tad higher than the ambient air temp.

What's the general consensus on this? Does the brew produce heat?

howdy Grega, fermentation does produce heat. i generally have 2 fermentors brewing next to each other - usually a week or so apart - the newest batch, during peak fermentation, is generally 2-4deg hotter than the older batch

[The Brown Hornet]

Thanks for the responses,

Just to clarify, I've been testing my fermentation temperature by actually immersing the thermometer in the wort (is it still wort after you've put the yeast in?) by removing the airlock and inserting it through the gromet.

No dramas with the notions that fermenation produces heat and that the fermenter will be warmer than ambient.

Just wondering what may have happened to my beer by fermenting at these lower temps than first thought.

cheers

[Guest]

Thanks for the responses,

Just to clarify, I've been testing my fermentation temperature by actually immersing the thermometer in the wort (is it still wort after you've put the yeast in?) by removing the airlock and inserting it through the gromet.

No dramas with the notions that fermenation produces heat and that the fermenter will be warmer than ambient.

Just wondering what may have happened to my beer by fermenting at these lower temps than first thought.

cheers

As long as the lagtime from pitching yeast to the start of fermentation wasn't too long then everything should be fine - probably even better than brewing at the higher temps.. i try and brew at as low temps as possibly can.

db

[Oliver]

... Now that I've checked against a decent thermometer, I find that I've actually brewed between 15 and 17 degrees for the duration ...

The question is, have I in effect just brewed my Pale Ale with a lager yeast? At what sort of temps does that Ale Component of the yeast become inactive all together?

At 15C-17C you will probably find there's a crossover in the effect that each yeast had. 15C is probably too cool for the ale yeast, but if it was more towards 17C you will probably (and I say probably because I don't know exactly what sort of yeast it is) find that the ale yeast has done some of the fermentation, while lager yeast has done its share, too.

So depending on what the precise fermentation temperature was, your beer will probably be a little or much crisper and less fruity than if you'd brewed at, say, 18C-22C.

Make sense?

Oliver

[Dogger Dan]

Oliver and I have a difference in opion on this.

Yeast doesn't share the "oh, sorry, I will give you a little space too" attitude. It is truely Darwinian and one will dominate to the exclusion of the other if there are two in the mix. Normally it is the one that can gety started faster and has the optimum growing conditions, normally the ale.

And I haven't had my coffee yet so forgive me if I have mistaken this, if you pitched an ale yeast it wont behave as a lager yeast just because the temp dropped. And vice versa, for the lager, it doesn't behave like an ale. (You make a California Common if you brew outside of lager temps with a lager yeast.)

And despite what a lot say, I like steam beer which is brewed using a lager yeast at about 75 deg F (have two on the go right now).


Dogger

[anti-fsck]

Is it me or do the Cascade hops introduce a "dusty" sort of after-taste?

[Paleman]

Is it me or do the Cascade hops introduce a "dusty" sort of after-taste?

anti-fsck, the brew in question is now done and dusted. I really couldnt enjoy the Cascade hops, as i dont think Coopers homebrews lend them selves to being lagered.

I had a very unenjoyable bitter aftertaste, that wasnt fair for the effort. Ive done a few Lagers now , Pale Ale, Pilsner and Bavarian....all have a strange taste.

I think i enjoy my Ales too much, smooth, silky and hoppy on the tongue.

[Dogger Dan]

Those after tastes are likely esters, they are hard to rid of even if you do have a controled climate. They tend to be produced by the yeast seemingly regardless of the temp.

Dogger

[Guest]

Is it me or do the Cascade hops introduce a "dusty" sort of after-taste?

anti, i agree.. i find it to be a dirty aftertaste in the back of the mouth/throat..
db

[The Brown Hornet]

Thanks for the replies Gentlemen ( & Ladies?)

Most of the fermenation was porbably closer to the 17 degree mark, and the yeast was pitched around there too so I'll assume that the ale yeast played it's fair part in the fermentation.

Interesting comments about the Darwinian nature of the yeast world Dogger. Pretty amusing to think of the life and death battle going on in my fermeter. Why on earth would our friends at Coopers blend an ale and lager yeast if one of them is just going to get over run by the all powerful other. I'm not disagreeing with your theory there, just something I'll ponder over a few quiet ones.

As for the tasting, that's where the truth is eh? I cracked on last night.... pretty big on flavour and feel, but distinctly different from the couple of others I've done to the same recipe. Maybe the cooler temps allowed the lager yeast to have a more pronounced effect than in my previously warmer brewed ones. Head was non-existent so I've taken them out of the fridge to let secondary have another go. I may have been too hasty putting them in the fridge and stopped secondary fermetation to early. I've been sent out bush for work for the next ten days so I'll see what they're like on my return.

Cheers

[Dogger Dan]

Thanks BH,

I think they do it so someone wins

Dogger

[Guest]

hey anti, dry hopping with pellets is said to produce a "grassy". could that be it?

and paleman, I did a lager (about 9 degrees) that was revolting 2 weeks after bottling, but after 6 weeks tastes amazing. it takes time for the sulfur taste to go.

Nick.