homebrewandbeer.com

Hi Guys,

After spending a week in Sydney for work a few weeks ago, I stumbled across what may be the best resteraunt in Sydney.....the lowenbrau!
I've now talked it up to all of my friends, and am planning a trip up there just to take them.

Anyway, whilst having a meal there, I tried a stein of their dark lager. I now want to produce something similar.

I was thinking of using a Coopers Bavarian lager, and some Hallertau hop pellets. What should I use for the fermentable sugars?
Should I just use some dark DME? I was also thinking of making it using a can of Coopers original dark ale, without the yeast. I will be making it as a double batch (I use a 60L fermenter), and would like it to be around the 5.5-6% mark if possible.

I don't have a lot of experience with darker beers, so was hoping for some advice from the professionals!

Thanks in advance

Look here http://www.bjcp.org/styles04/Category4.html#style4C for the BJCP style guidelines for this style of beer. I do not think it is a style suitable for making with kits and extract. At the very least you will need to to be steeping some carafa or other continetal roasted malt, certainly not roasted barley. Also it is needing a lager yeast so the Coopers Bavarian Lager is a good kit to start this with, as would be any ESB lager kit.

i recently tried a dark lager.. mine was a partial mash tho.
if you want to use kits i'd probly try the bav lager + 1kg of dark dme + 250-300g of chocolate & a tiny bit of roast (or something similar thats darker than choc) maybe 50-100g max - steeped overnight in cold water..
for my partial i used 1kg of dark dme + 250g choc (800ebc) for colour & the colour i got was way off.. its way too light.
for aroma hops i used hallertau mittlefreuh.. but i guess you could use any german variety

Black Rock and Muntons both sell a Bock kit... thats a Dark Lager right?

I recently tried a Bock. I used a can of Coopers Larger, a Brewcraft Dark Larger converter kit and 500grms Light Dry Malt. I used the yeast that came with kit and a saflager yeast as well.

I have only sampled one since bottling 3 weeks ago. It required more secondary fermentation. It seemed fine to me. It wasnt an awesome beer, but the again, nothing I have produced so far would make one of the German Brew Houses quake in their boots. There were some subtle flavours of the dark grains that came in the converter kit. I think that it could have done with more to make it a slightly darker mix and Im sure that the hops boiling and simmer times for these Brewcraft are too short as there doesnt seem to be too much influence from whatever hops it is that is supplied.

Could be worth a try again with a Bavarian Larger kit, and more attention paid to the hops.

Conrad,

Here's what I've did about 6 weeks ago with Coopers Dark Ale and the results have been great, gets lots of positive feedback from perviously anti-homebrew family:

Made a yeast starter 2 days before brewing.

I boilt 500g DME, 500g LME and 500g Honey. A total of 1.5kg. Boilt it for an hour.

A first for me, I then boilt 10g Fuggles for 15 min. I then let 10g sit for 2mins with lid on. Strained it and added to fermenter with the mix below:

I took the mix off the stove and added Coopers Dark Ale mix and stirred until dissolved.

Added to the fermenter after it sat in the sink with cold water for about 10mins. Added hops.

Waited till temperature was 25C and then added yeast starter.
OG reading was 1041.

I bottled after a week. final gravitu was about 1012.

It's a ripper of a recipe that I formulated from ideas on here.

Good luck.

NTRabbit wrote:Black Rock and Muntons both sell a Bock kit... thats a Dark Lager right?

some bocks are.. but not all

db wrote:

NTRabbit wrote:Black Rock and Muntons both sell a Bock kit... thats a Dark Lager right?

some bocks are.. but not all

Forgive the impertinence, but whats that supposed to mean?

Bocks are generally heavy dark(er/ish) lagers. There is out there somewhere a wiessenbock - a heavy light lager.

***I think***


Greg.

NTRabbit wrote:

db wrote:

NTRabbit wrote:Black Rock and Muntons both sell a Bock kit... thats a Dark Lager right?

some bocks are.. but not all

Forgive the impertinence, but whats that supposed to mean?

I think Greg's right. The point was that most bocks are dark lagers, but not all bocks are dark lagers.

Oliver

yeah thats right greg

http://www.beerhunter.com/styles/bok_bock.html

Bock is a lager but not all bocks are black.

The dark lager at the Lowenbrau is a Dunkel, not a schwartzbier nor a bock for that matter. Is this correct? http://www.lowenbrau.com.au/beers.htm
In which case, please forget my previous post. This beer would be even harder to replicate with kits and extracts. I am having a strong aversion to lagers made from extracts recently. At the very least you will need to reduce body in the beer with highly fermentable content such as sugar but this has a poor effect on head retension and malt flavour, which is what makes this style. At the very least perform a mini mash. I have not tested this recipe, but would humbly assume that this may get close to a Munich Dunkel:

1x Coopers Bavarian Lager kit
1Kg Light Dry Malt extract (Or 1.2Kg Light Liquid Malt Extract)
1Kg (*) Munich Malt
200g melanoidin malt
15g Hallertau hops

Mash the crushed grains or steep in 2.5L of water at 65°C for 1 hour then strain water into pot. Run the runoff thru the water once more for clarity then rinse thru with another 2 liters. Bring liquid to boil and boil for 5 minutes, add hops and extract then boil 10 minutes more. Put lid on and chill the pot for one hour in sink of cold water and ice, add to fermenter with kit and use the Lager yeast supplied with the Coopers kit or pitch the lager yeast you prefer. Ferment at 12°C or lower until finished, perform diecetyl rest before FG is reached, then lager at 1°C for 1 month before bottling or kegging.

(*)Depending on the colour of the extract, you will need a mixture of light and dark Munich malt. I would be inclined to make extract light and Munich dark.

This beer is not easy to replicate without the grain as Munich Dunkel is a malt driven beer. It is also not possible to come close without brewing with lager yeast at lager temperatures then a lagering of at least 2 weeks.

I do not wish to rain on your parade, but you cannot make a silk purse from a sow's ear. Pardon the mixing of metaphors, it is late.

I'm not trying to make it taste identical to the Dunkel at the Lowenbrau, just something of a similar style.

The reason I'm wanting to use a kit, is because I am only quite new to brewing, and have never tried anything more than kit brewing.

As for keeping the temperatures low, have no fear. I have to use a heat belt to keep the fermenter at 13 degrees! Oh the joys of living in Canberra!

I might just try a regular Bavarian lager for now, and attempt this when I am a little more competent at brewing!

Thanks for everyone's help

My dark ale was my first attempt at using hops and boiling etc... is incredibly easy and rewarding.

Hey umop-3p|sdn,

Try throwing half a kilo of dark dry malt in with the Bavarian for a darker lager. Thinking 500g DDME, 300g Dextrose, 200g Maltodextrin.

Cheers,

Greg

I noticed in my HBS that ESB have a Winter Bock Fresh Wort.

Here's their web page

http://www.esbeer.com.au

I haven't tried this one, but their American Pale Ale is supberb. Worth the extra $'s IMHO

Thanks a lot for that Herby!

I'm going to give the ESB idea a try!

That particular establishment has nothing on the Doma beer cafe in Potts Point....and yes i am a member (as found in the glass cabinet) of the establishment mentioned in the initial post...

Out of curiosity, how does one become a member of said establishment?

Sorry folks,

Yes there is a wheat bock out there and you can always brew a bock with a neutral ale yeast if you want.

Dogger