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Was planning on puttimg a wals pilsner down this week and wasn't sure what to add, i was thinking something along the lines of 1kg ldme and 250gm dex but any ideas and stories of success would be greatly appreciated, thanks guys!

I have had good results with Ultrabrew (500gm LDME, 250gm Dextrose, 250gm Maltodextrin) and about 200gm pale grain minimashed. Yeast as supplied, brewing temp low to mid teens.

Cheers,
Greg

I have made it as follows with great results"

1 x Wals Pilsner
1kg LDME
150gm Pilsner grain steeped
20gm Saaz dry hopped.
Made up to 22 ltrs.

gregb wrote:I have had good results with Ultrabrew (500gm LDME, 250gm Dextrose, 250gm Maltodextrin) and about 200gm pale grain minimashed. Yeast as supplied, brewing temp low to mid teens.

Cheers,
Greg

Do you know if that is bassically the same as the brewcraft #20 brewbooster it sounds about right.

Dunno Lethal, only ever known as Ultrabrew.

Cheers,
Greg

Hi Wassa,
being a novice, would you be able to explain the process that you used with those ingredients?

cheers
shaunl

Steeping is bassically soaking the grain in hot water for an hour or so to let all the goodness out into the water, the rest would be pretty much as normal and i dont know about wassa but i would boil the malt and the strain the steeped grain into the malt and sparge it ( pour some more warm-hot water through it) then add your can when you take off the heat, give a good stir and into the fermenter, make up to your desired volume and pitch yeast, i dont usually dry hop but im guessing that wassa would probably do as most do and thats throw the tea bag in when racking, Last step as usual is sit back and crack a cold one ( most important step )

With pils grain, you need to do a mini mash, maintain 65-68 degree for ~1 and a quater hour. I used 3L water for 1kg of grain. Filter the mash and rinse with warm water(70C) to further extract sweetness from grain. Boil for 1 hour.

That's quite a long process. I would make a bigger quantity instead of just 150g. This mash is substitute for LDME, 150g grain =~ 100g LDME. So if you decide to make a bigger quantity, you can reduce amount of LDME proportionally.

Could you substitute the unmased pils grain for some kind of light crystal (which doesn't require mashing)?

Yep. I'd suggest that you go for the lightest you can find.

Don't be daunted by mini-mash, Nt's tips above should work fine.

Cheers,
Greg

Wouldnt You get bassically the same effect with a steeped crystal grain or are they completely different.?

Yeah, they're completely different, basically, crystal has been converted to sugar by the kilning process, whereas other types of grain need to be mashed so that the enzymes can do the conversion.

From Chapter 13 of How to Brew by John Palmer:
As was discussed in the previous chapter, there are basically two kinds of malts: those that need to be mashed and those that don't. Mashing is the hot water soaking process that provides the right conditions for the enzymes to convert the grain starches into fermentable sugars. Specialty malts like caramel and roasted malts do not need to be mashed. These malts have undergone a special kilning process in which the starches are converted to sugars by heat right inside the hull. As a result, these malts contain more complex sugars, some of which do not ferment, leaving a pleasant caramel-like sweetness.

Steeping differs from mashing in that there is no enzyme activity taking place to convert grain or adjunct starches to sugars. Steeping specialty grains is entirely a leaching and dissolution process of sugars into the wort. If grain with enzyme diastatic potential is steeped, that is mashing.

Steeping specialty grain is like making tea. The crushed grain is soaked in hot 65° - 75°C water for 30 minutes. Even though a color change will be noticeable early on, steep for the entire 30 minutes to get as much of the available sugar dissolved into the wort as possible. The grain is removed from the water and that water (now a wort) is then used to dissolve the extract for the boil.

The analogy to a tea bag is a good one in that if the grain is left in for too long (hours), astringent tannin compounds (a.k.a. phenols) can be extracted from the grain husks. The compounds give the wort a dry puckering taste, much like a black tea that has been left to steep too long. The extraction of tannins is especially prevalent if the water is too hot - above 75°C.

Ah ok, i havent had alot to do with grain but im starting to now so all this is commin real handy, obviously its not that hard to mash though right, i mean ive seen the big setups but does it do the same thing to just minimash the amount you want on the stove or something providing the temp is right?

Yeah, so long as you get the temps right, the enzymes should do the conversion from starch to maltose just fine.

The result is different though because crystal has more caramel flavours created by the kilning process. But that's what you want: variety is the spice of life!

rwh wrote:Yeah, so long as you get the temps right, the enzymes should do the conversion from starch to maltose just fine.

The result is different though because crystal has more caramel flavours created by the kilning process. But that's what you want: variety is the spice of life!

For sure, thanks m8, ill be giving it a go shortly.

As long as you've got a thermometer and a saucepan you can mash 1-2kg of grain quite easily. The hard part is going to a full mash (4-5kg) where you need to boil lots of wort for a long time. That's when you start to need the extra equipment.

For a partial mash, you can't go past a grain bag, it pretty much does the sparging for you.

Dont know if im quite ready for a ful mash just yet although i will deffinately give it a go down the track one step at a time for this guy, apart from that my brews have already improved shite loads since being on here so im already heaps happy

When you're ready Lethal, the AG Pilsner recipe is pretty straight forward.

Cheers,
Greg

Top stuff here gents. Thanks.

I have been steeping grain for about ten brews and am happy as with the results.

I sort of had a most basic understanding about the differences between mashing and steeping but never got around to reading up on it . This thread explains it well. I reckon I have the makings of a AG setup lying around and reading these threads certainly takes the mystery out the process.

Just wish I knew this stuff years ago!!

Cheers

Muddy

gregb wrote:When you're ready Lethal, the AG Pilsner recipe is pretty straight forward.

Cheers,
Greg

Go on m8 give it up, who knows you may convert me quicker than i thought :lol:I have always been a kit brewer and have just started adding my own grains and branching out to other things, although i have to say that after following kit recipes and bassically adding what your given in correct amounts, its hard not being a little nervous about something you do yourself from scratch, but im willing to give anything a go as ive heard alot of people on here say that once they went AG there beers improved ten fold