Coopers Pale Ale - K&K or extract recipe

[drsmurto]

As is normally the case, i have both fermenters full so am planning what to refill them with. After a few expts with extra hops here and there and all mat i was thinking i would put the call out for recipes from all of you lot for the recipe you think tastes as close as possible to the real deal, CPA.

I have a kg of LDME so was thinking i could get a tin of the Cooper Pale Ale and mix the 2. CPA isnt hoppy at all IMO so do i need any hops added to this.

If was to to do an extract recipe with say 3kg of Coopers Pale Malt any thoughts on that - i have the POR they use.

This hobby is taking over, i spend so much time planning what to put down when the fermenters are empty that its almost an anti climax come brewing day....

Cheers
DrSmurto

p.s. yes, have done a search for coopers AND pale....

[SpillsMostOfIt]

Not strictly addressing your question, but..


The first CPA kit brew I did was with 1kg BE2 and the kit yeast. The second was with 1kg Coopers LDME and SafAle US-56.

Both were okay, but the second took a lot longer to get to 'okay' and for quite a while I thought the first was the superior brew. Having just finished the second one, I now think it might be better overall if the wait can be tolerated. Better head and carbonation. 'Smoother' flavour.

Neither were much like the real stuff, but perfectly drinkable, so I guess that the rumours about waiting a while after bottling may be true...

[drsmurto]

Am off the opinion that since most commercials beers dont contain dextrose i wont be adding that to my beer, bulk priming the exception.

So i should have said that i was after an all malt recipe. Time is ok, have enough beers in bottles to allow me to wait a few months before drinking.

[rwh]

Well, using the info from the famous Coopers whiteboard:

Pale Ale 4600.40.200

Which is: 95% pale malt, 1% crystal malt, 4% wheat malt. Next we use the brewcraft calculator to find out how much malt to use to achieve the 4.5% alc/vol.

I come up with:

1 1.5kg tin of Coopers Liquid Light Malt Extract
1kg Light dry malt extract
85g Dry wheat malt extract
40g crystal malt, steeped

As for the hopping schedule, have a look at the Hops FAQ. To balance the malt, we need an IBU of 16. Coopers is famous for using only Pride of Ringwood, so we do an IBU calcuation based on that. I think the pale is double hopped, but I'm going to do a triple hop schedule (just for fun) using the Rooftop Brew IBU calculator. Assuming an AA% of 11% for the POR:

Addtion | weight(oz) | AA% | minutes | IBU
Hop Addition 1 | 0.21 | 11 | 60 | 8.6
Hop Addition 2 | 0.21 | 11 | 20 | 5.5
Hop Addition 3 | 0.21 | 11 | 5 | 1.7

Total IBU: 15.8

Note that 0.21 oz is 6 grams.

Make it up to 23L. As for the yeast, I'd either reculture some from a Coopers pale ale bottle (search for how to do this) or just use a Coopers dry yeast sachet.

[drsmurto]

rwh, legend!

Nice and simple looking recipe.

Got a few longnecks of CPA in the shed ready for a shot at a CPA clone so no prob reculturing them.

Cheers
DrSmurto

[rwh]

One other thing: I like to do a small boil when I'm doing all extract brews, then top up with water at the end. That means you don't need to do any chilling or waiting to get the wort down to pitching temperature. To get the same hop utilisation, I only put in the quantity of malt proportionally to keep the concentration of the wort the same as if I was doing a full-sized boil.

So, say you want to do a 4L boil, just use 4/23, or 17% of the malt. Then once the boil is complete, just dissolve the rest of the malt before you add to the fermenter. In this case you'll have the added bonus of not caramelising the malt as much, which should keep the beer paler.

I'm sure the purists will say something about hot break here.

[Pale_Ale]

Looks good rwh, I might give that a go myself (subject to dr's results )

Also drsmurto I think Coopers brew the PA at 16C.

[drsmurto]

Last minute followup as i want to put this down this weekend....

Will 1 CPA longneck give me enough yeast if i was to tip off the beer and add the yeast to a cooled solution of 60g malt in 600mL water. Got to duck out and grab the airlock to fit to the top of a longneck unless others have a cheaper, easier alternative to this. Plan to pitch the yeast saturday arvo so it will have 48 hours, can wait till Sunday if longer is required.....

Cheers
DrSmurto

[gregb]

Glad wrap & lacky band.

Cheers,
Greg

[Pale_Ale]

I'd wait until Sunday to pitch, the CPA cultures don't get going for me until after 48 hours, normally 72. Though having said that even if you don't pitch at high krausen, it will still be fine.

[lethaldog]

Last minute followup as i want to put this down this weekend....

Will 1 CPA longneck give me enough yeast if i was to tip off the beer and add the yeast to a cooled solution of 60g malt in 600mL water. Got to duck out and grab the airlock to fit to the top of a longneck unless others have a cheaper, easier alternative to this. Plan to pitch the yeast saturday arvo so it will have 48 hours, can wait till Sunday if longer is required.....

Cheers
DrSmurto

Ive never used more than 1 longneck but if you have a couple then what better excuse to drink them
1 works fine though

[SpillsMostOfIt]

Last minute followup as i want to put this down this weekend....

Will 1 CPA longneck give me enough yeast if i was to tip off the beer and add the yeast to a cooled solution of 60g malt in 600mL water. Got to duck out and grab the airlock to fit to the top of a longneck unless others have a cheaper, easier alternative to this. Plan to pitch the yeast saturday arvo so it will have 48 hours, can wait till Sunday if longer is required.....

Cheers
DrSmurto

Ive never used more than 1 longneck but if you have a couple then what better excuse to drink them
1 works fine though

It's not true - do not believe him. You will need six longnecks and there is this weird thing that the yeast seem to know if all six were drunk by one person or more. They will not work as well if more than one person drank them.

[Pale_Ale]

LOL

[drsmurto]

As is the case more often than not, I rock up to the HBS with my recipes in hand picking up the ingredients with the enthusiasm of a pig in shit only to be corrected and given the more appropriate ingredients.

Sound familiar? Maybe its just cos my HBS happens to be The Monk, The Jovial Monk. And with all his awards pinned to the hops fridge i wotn be arguing anytime soon!

So my extract Pale Ale has been changed from the one rwh came up with. Crystal subbed with Carared - will add less colour than crystal keeping it closer to CPA. Sounded good to me. So i have 250g of that but wont be adding it all??? Also have the wheat malt extract but again far too much.

Also had plans to do a honey porter, Wassa's recipe i think.
1 can cascade mahogany porter
1kg dark malt
500g yellow box honey
20g cascade

So instead of that i was given
1 can Cooper lager
1kg dark malt
500g weyermann carafa special 3 malt
25g POR hops for extra bittering
EDIT: will still be adding the honey..... and some cascade at flameout

Monks theory is its better to start with a low IBU kit and add your own bitterness.

Am salivating at all that grain.........

Any comments?

I have the CPA yeast reculturing, used 2 longecks instead of one cos i was thirsty and have a US56 yeast for the porter.

Cheers
DrSmurto
p.s. dont suppose the bloke chatting to me in the Monk was a member of this forum? young bloke, red shirt, braces. Had a box of hop plugs!

[Pale_Ale]

I would have thought carared would make the colour too red for CPA? I just used crystal malt for my Mildish Ale recently and the colour was not too far from CPA.

I agree the Jovial Monk is a good store, probably the only decent Adelaide based outfit really. The guys know their stuff and always have time to chat.

Pretty cheap hops too, and drsmurto they have nz hallertau flowers at the moment for a good price if you have a pilsner planned.

PS No affiliation but once again, as with Coopers, don't work for em but should be on the payroll.

I'm still looking for a definitive extract/kit /w grains recipe for CPA, anyone.

[drsmurto]

The Monk is a vault of knowledge and everytime i drop in there i end up chatting away for a while with plans /ideas. He is a purist tho, so he tends to rework recipes from that angle. He told me the carared is lighter than crystal, who was i to doubt him? Ended up using 100g of carared and 100g of the wheat malt extract. The CPA re cultured yeast is bubbling away nicely altho i did buy i US56 yeast in case i ballsed it up.......

As for the honey porter recipe he altered, i had the steep water at 65 and thought it might drop a tad when i added the grain so i turned the hot plate on. Trouble is i walked away to read the paper and the hot plate was on full so 5 mins later i hear the horrible sound of malt spewing out of the pan all over the stove, element, floor etc. So another trip to the HBS and i got the carafa special 2 nalt instead but this time no heat from the stove. House smelt so good! Nice and dark looking porter that is bubbling away like crazy at 22.

This HB caper is so much fun! My first extract w grains. Put an order in for a 20+L pot for my bday in march so i reckon AG isnt too far away.......

[drsmurto]

One other thought/question.....

Reading around on this site and others on hop utilisation. I had the liquid from the steeped carared, the wheat malt and a few tbsp of the light dried malt in approx 3L of water. Is that about the right size dilution to get the required bitterness out of my POR hops (8g each @ 60, 30, 5)??? I then added the rest of the dried malt and liquid malt at flameout and topped up to 23L.

i have beersmith but struggling to figure out how to adjust boil size to attain the desired IBUs..... anyone with some ideas on my method and whether this (or another prog) can help me?

Cheers
DrSmurto

[Pale_Ale]

drsmurto,

This is a challenge for me too as I normally do small-volume boils with extract then top up with water. I only do about a 6-10L boil.

Problem is, most IBU calculators don't cater to this very well.

In order to get a close calculation, first add malt to your boil to get the gravity approximate to the gravity of the final volume - you can use the BrewCraft calculator to figure out how much malt you'll need.

Then use an IBU calculator and enter full batch size.

Then times the IBU calculation by 0.85 to get allow for reduced hop utilization (something to do with humolenes or something).

Any additional LDM should be added at the end to dissolve.

[Pale_Ale]

dr, I'm keen to see how you go with this, and as mentioned, if anyone else has made a cpa clone with some success pls post!

[drsmurto]

rwh is responsible for the recipe so i can point the finger at him if it goes wrong and take all the credit if it turns out to be a winner....

just kidding rwh. i used your 4/23 idea to work out roughly how much malt i needed but the liquid from steeping the grain will throw that out a little. I should have tasted it before i pitched the yeast but it smelt good so will wait and see. Since its supposed to be a CPA clone i am tempted to not rack it and just leave it in primary for an extra week.......but i will see how motivated i am come the weekend. Its bubbling along nicely altho i havent been able to get it below 22 even with my wet towel trick sitting in a tray of water. I am guessing the temp since the CPA doesnt have a thermo but the barrel next to it does and thats a honey porter bubbling at nearly 3 times the pace so it may be a tad cooler but nowhere near the 16 coopers use. Still, i , like PA am keen to get a beer close to the real deal so will keep you all informed of its progress.

Cheers
DrSmurto