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Protein Film Buildup
Posted: Friday Mar 11, 2005 3:15 pm
by Crystal
Hi Peoples,
I came across this interesting snippet on equipment cleaning the other day. Its from this website:
http://www.allaboutbeer.com/homebrew/24 ... obrew.html
You can't sanitize dirty stuff.
Even professional brewers wrestle with this, but you absolutely have to get a handle on it. If not, the rest of your efforts can be a big waste of time, and no great recipe, hand-cultured yeast, or cool label can make your beer drinkable.
Vessels and tools on the "hot side" of brewing, that is, before the wort is chilled and inoculated, need to be as clean as your food cooking equipment.
But in your fermenter, every batch of beer deposits a fresh coating onto the sides and bottom regardless of what material it's made of. This protein film can be nearly invisible but it can harbor bacteria, which may turn your beer unpleasantly sour. Eventually, the film will build up enough to be noticed, but by this point you're in deep trouble.
Scouring with a carboy brush will not remove this film and neither will bleach. Breweries use specialized cleaning chemicals, and you should, too. Caustic soda (lye) was long the cleaner of choice for breweries. Cheap and powerful, it does have drawbacks. It is extremely corrosive to copper, brass and aluminum, as well as organic materials like skin and eyes. For obvious reasons, protective gloves and eyewear are mandatory. It also must be used with very hot water. The other downside to caustic-and this is why I stopped using it-is that with hard water, it throws a chalky deposit that requires an acid to rinse away. It's also getting harder to find. I don't recommend it.
Oxygenated cleaners like Five Star PBW(r) (Powdered Brewery Wash) work extremely well even in cold water, are safe, and are available through homebrew supply channels. Just mix according to directions and watch the gunk come off. I swear that the first time I deep-cleaned my carboys, it looked like there were little bats flying around in there. Don't forget your racking hoses, bottling wand, and anything else than comes in contact with your beer. Once it's clean, then you can sanitize it.
So I was wondering if anybody knew of an "oxygenated cleaner" ie non caustic that can help remove that "protein film" that is building up...
Any ideas ?
Posted: Friday Mar 11, 2005 10:15 pm
by Dogger Dan
I have brewed for 15 years with the same equipment and there is no protein film building up. Clean it when you finish with it using soppy water and a good rinse
This clown can go pound sand, you don't need the industrial strength stuff and you sure don't need peroxide.
If you feel the need, use TSP, the stuff you use for washing the walls before you paint to wash your goods.
Dogger
Posted: Friday Mar 11, 2005 10:21 pm
by munkey
im shure that most brewing cleaners incorporate this issue,
the cleaner i use is by brewpacks and it states that its for the cleaning of soiled items and sanitising.
the water feels almost slippery and goes white for the first 5 mins of use, reminissent of oxygenated cleaners.
it also states a maxmum contact time which would suggest something other than just sanitising.
its called brewclean
http://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/item958.htm
Posted: Sunday Mar 13, 2005 1:21 pm
by Guest
I use nappy san oxy action for bottles and in between brews is a good sanitiser too.
GTI86
Posted: Monday Mar 14, 2005 1:18 pm
by Guest
Please excuse my ignorance but isnt napisan a detergent base which if not rinsed very well cause a flat beer?? Would Milton Baby bottle cleaner work as well without being a detergent Baby bottles do not require rinsing before filling I am looking for a quick fix as some of my brown PET bottles have developed a scumm on the inside which I would like to remove with the least effort (basically a lazy lady)
Posted: Monday Mar 14, 2005 4:33 pm
by Shaun
You still need to rinse with Milton's it leaves a horrible taste. If you have a scum build up the only way I know of to get rid of it is with a bottle wash and bottle brush sorry. In the past I put my bottle brush in a cordless drill to speed up the process and if you do a search for bottle rinsing you should find details on how to build a bottle rinser here.
Posted: Monday Mar 14, 2005 6:51 pm
by Terry
Shaun,
If it hasn't been said before, you're an ideas man. While we are discussing sanitising solutions, has anyone tried using any of those no rinse sanitising solutions? I haven't but if I can't rinse I don't think I could trust it. Quite happy to use the solution like Miltons.
Posted: Monday Mar 14, 2005 7:46 pm
by Shaun
I use one, they are good if your equipment is clean and just needs sanitizing. Mix it up in an atomiser bottle and spray as required. When bottling I also used it in my bottle washer if the bottles only needed sanitizing not cleaning.
Lazy rotten filthy cheating bottle wash
Posted: Wednesday Mar 16, 2005 12:20 am
by anti-fsck
*cough* *cough* dishwasher on pot wash cycle *cough*
Haven't had a bad bottle yet (discounting the stubby I was given by the people next door who had had a party and some arsehole had put a ciggie butt in the bottle that I didn't see). Use a good detergent tho, as the cheap ones are very^2 caustic.
Posted: Friday Mar 18, 2005 5:03 pm
by gregb
I hav found neo-pink seems to take the scum of any bottle, just be careful as it also seems to want to take the skin off your fingers also...
Greg
Posted: Sunday Dec 10, 2006 9:36 am
by unicamrep
I've just started kegging and I sampled my first kegged brew yesterday (coopers wheat beer) and it was bloody good.
Now I want to know how to keep everything clean.
I've seen Five star cleaners designed for homebrewing but can't find it for sale here.
Thanks.
Grant.
Posted: Sunday Dec 10, 2006 12:39 pm
by chris.
unicamrep wrote:I've just started kegging and I sampled my first kegged brew yesterday (coopers wheat beer) and it was bloody good.
Now I want to know how to keep everything clean.
I've seen Five star cleaners designed for homebrewing but can't find it for sale here.
Thanks.
Grant.
5 star PBW is Sodium Percarbonate (Napisan or the new Coopers Sanitiser)
Posted: Monday Dec 11, 2006 12:19 am
by JackoMC
When working in wineries, caustic is often used to clean deposits, and to sanitize.
When using it, we never used hot water, and we always used citric acid (a common food additive, and easy to come accross) to rinse, not so much to get rid of the deposit, but to bring the Ph back to neutral.
Posted: Monday Dec 11, 2006 8:29 am
by drsmurto
Never dissolve caustic soda in hot water, it will melt the plastic bucket. As it dissolves it gives of loads of heat so you want to start with cold water not hot!
Another option to citric acid to neutralise it after is to dilute some vinegar with water. Then rinse rinse rinse and bobs your uncle.
Personally i use a little bleach between runs but then i do out down another brew an hour after emptying it
Dishwasher? Anti-fsck - ur a bloody genius! Will give that a go next time, especially for those bottles that havent been cleaned in a few years......
Tis amazing how many different routines people have to clean, sanitise. If it works for you keep doing it!
Cheers
DrSmurto