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Hi all,

I've got various grains sitting in my freezer and am keen to have a stab at my first partial. Here's what I have:
500g wheat malt
1kg Weyerman Cara Wheat
2kg Powells Munich
250g medium crystal
100g choc malt
1.5kg LDME

I'm keen to have a crack at a dunkelweizen, put anything would be OK I guess. I might start off with a ~15L batch because I only have a 19L pot at the moment. I'd prefer to use a liquid yeast - I've got American Ale, London Ale and 3068 Weizen ATM.

Thanks in advance,

Tim

I would go:

500g wheat malt
250g Weyerman Cara Wheat
2kg Powells Munich
150g medium crystal
40g choc malt
1.5kg LDME

I made something similar a few weeks back:

Dunkelryezen

2.00 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (3.0 SRM) Grain 24.21 %
2.00 kg Rye Malt (Weyermann) (3.0 SRM) Grain 24.21 %
1.50 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (7.1 SRM) Grain 18.16 %
1.00 kg Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM) Grain 12.11 %
1.00 kg Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM) Grain 12.11 %
0.35 kg Carahell (Weyermann) (13.0 SRM) Grain 4.24 %
0.18 kg Wheat Malt, Dark (Weyermann) (7.0 SRM) Grain 2.18 %
0.15 kg Melanoidin (Weyermann) (30.0 SRM) Grain 1.82 %
0.04 kg Carafa Special I (Weyermann) (320.0 SRM) Grain 0.48 %
0.04 kg Chocolate Malt (Joe White) (381.0 SRM) Grain 0.48 %
40.00 gm Hallertauer [4.80 %] (90 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 20.4 IBU
40.00 gm Santiam [6.00 %] (90 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 25.4 IBU
20.00 gm Hallertauer [4.80 %] (20 min) Hops 5.2 IBU
20.00 gm Santiam [6.00 %] (20 min) Hops 6.5 IBU
1 Pkgs Weihenstephan Weizen (Wyeast Labs #3068) Yeast-Wheat

Thanks Kev.

Any suggestions on mashing schedule? I'm very new to this...

Should I just throw all the (cracked) grains in an esky and hold it at ~70deg for an hour or so?

Also, what do you reckon about subbing the LDME with a tin of Coopers Wheat malt to get more of the wheat flavour through?

Cheers,

Tim

My mash schedule was fairly complex. I did the following:

Mash ONLY the wheat (and rye but you won't have any) malt at 54 C for 25 mins with a grain/water ratio of 1.5 litres per kg. malt. Add the barley malt and water to hit 66 C. Mash for an additional 60 minutes.

Seperate the first few litres out of the mash tun and boil them down seperately until they get quite thick and caramelise then add back to the main boil.

Yeah you could definately add the Coopers Wheat Malt, in fact it will probably turn out better that way!

Let us know how you go with it.

oooh - a decoction...

Why not? I'm game....

I plugged the ingredients into Qbrew and it looks reasonable at about 15L - does this sound OK? I don't have any Santiam (haven't even heard of it...), so I assume that Hallertau should be OK.

Thanks again Kev - I've been wanting to have a stab at a dunkel for a long time. Finally an excuse....

I just spent 10 minutes typing a reply only to have the bloody internet crash and I lost it all!

Anyway I will try to remember what I said.

This is not a decoction. The part you boil down is the first running off the mash tun. Do not take grist for the caramelisation. I used the first 8L of wort and brought it down to less than 2L. This no doubt changed my hop efficiency quite a bit which I did not take into account. Make sure you factor in the extra water loss and boil gravity when doing your hop additions. Also 8L was probably a bit much, I would sggest 3-4L and boiling it down under 1L.

That recipe in a 15L batch sounds like a ripper! Hallertau will be fine if that what you like, but I find it too harsh on it's own (personal preference).

Best of luck with it.

Quick update on this one....

I followed the recipe but dropped the munich to 1kg instead of 2 - now it's target ABV is 6.1%....

I also used Tettnang to bitter and Hallertau to flavour and ended up with 18IBU's according to QBrew. It's been in the fermenter for almost a week now and it's tasting bloody nice..... The alc is really noticable at room temps too.

The only thing that I may have screwed is the fermentation temp - I ended up pitching at 25 deg and it's been a bit hot down here. The banana flavours were apparent but not overpowering as I might have expected from the high temps.

Will post an update when I've got it in the bottle.

Cheers,

Tim

Kevnlis wrote:I just spent 10 minutes typing a reply only to have the bloody internet crash and I lost it all!

Anyway I will try to remember what I said.

This is not a decoction. The part you boil down is the first running off the mash tun. Do not take grist for the caramelisation. I used the first 8L of wort and brought it down to less than 2L. This no doubt changed my hop efficiency quite a bit which I did not take into account. Make sure you factor in the extra water loss and boil gravity when doing your hop additions. Also 8L was probably a bit much, I would sggest 3-4L and boiling it down under 1L.

That recipe in a 15L batch sounds like a ripper! Hallertau will be fine if that what you like, but I find it too harsh on it's own (personal preference).

Best of luck with it.

Interesting method - so did you end up topping up the boil to provide sufficient hop bittering? I see you gave the mash a protein rest before the saccharification mash. I can see the logic in boiling down some of the first runnings to get the melanoidins happening, but did you fall short of the final volume?

Cheers,
TL

I had to top up the fermentor because I forgot about the loss to evaporation until the end. The bittering was not as high as expected for sure, but it was still a great brew!

I think the banana flavours are desired a bit in this style. I purposely fermented high to achieve some ester myself.

No probs...
My only advice for those contemplating this method (and don't get me wrong, it looks fine), would be to make sure that whatever wort you pull from the main boil should be very clear of particulate matter as a concentrated boil such as this is a sure fire way of getting harsh tannins into the beer if you've got husk particles floating in the mini boil.

Agree re the bananas - they're part and parcel of Wyeast 3068...

Cheers,
TL

Thanks TL, I should have mentioned that the wort taken from the boil should be the first clear runnings

Hey Kevlis, did you find that the first-runnings boils are highly prone to boil overs?

When I have done this in the past, even just 4L of first-runnings will easily boil over my 30L pot if not watched carefully.
Its a scary site, and a very sticky clean up.

The Carbonator wrote:Hey Kevlis, did you find that the first-runnings boils are highly prone to boil overs?

When I have done this in the past, even just 4L of first-runnings will easily boil over my 30L pot if not watched carefully.
Its a scary site, and a very sticky clean up.

Yes, it definitely requires a close eye and a lot of stirring, but I let it boil up as much as possible to help it caramelise.

Also another point I missed. If you batch sparge make sure you take the runnings before you add the sparge water.

Quick update on this one.

It's screwed basically. I bottled tonight and from the secondary it smelt like thinners and there was a white film over the top. Spewing because it's the most effort I've put into a brew to date and it's f&*ked

Yeah? That's rough mate! I know how you feel!

What yeast did you use?

I used some 3068 plus some mysterious stuff that was picked up from my fridge.....

I reckon the brew might be fine then. The 3068 does strange stuff!Keep that beer, mine did the exact same thing and it was bloody good stuff! I think that is what the 3068 is supposed to do for some reason? There have been a couple chats about this exact topic on AHB and the consensus, I think was that the "infection" in that yeast is a desired character. I was scared as well but I bottled mine and it came good after a couple months in the bottle.

timmy wrote:Quick update on this one.

It's screwed basically. I bottled tonight and from the secondary it smelt like thinners and there was a white film over the top. Spewing because it's the most effort I've put into a brew to date and it's f&*ked

Timmy, the white scum is a wild yeast infection - as to whether the wild yeast came from the 3068 of your fridge etc, that's another question...I've not normally associated Brett / Wild Yeast infections as being part of using Wyeast 3068 - that's more in the domain of lambic brewers!

Have you summoned up the courage to taste it yet?

Cheers,
TL

Well TL, mine did the exact same thing, and when it happened I did quite a bit of research and found that quite a few others using this yeast had the same sort of "infection". I am therefore assuming that it is the way this yeast acts and mine were more than drinkable. If timmy does not want them I will gladly do the honours for him

Quick update on this:-

The first batch of this was infected (thinners smell with white film on top after racking). It's been in the bottle now for a month or so and it's still dodgy.

But I had another stab at the recipe but subbing in a tin of out-of-date Coopers Wheat Beer kit (b/b 2002) and adjusted the recipe accordingly. It did start getting the white film about a week after racking and I was fearing the worst. So I kegged the first 8L into my party keg and bottled the rest. I drank about half the keg over the weekend and it's bloody beautiful! Definately a convert to partial mashing now...I put down my 4th one last night (based on Grumpy's Wit partial) and am planning some more.

Thanks again for the starter recipe....

Cheers,
Tim