NEW TO BREWING - UNIMPRESSED WITH LOCAL HBS

[Clean Brewer]

Hello All,

As per normal when I start something I get into it and read as much as I can. Of late I have rekindled my Wood Working as a Hobby and also started Brewing.
I am a Chef by Trade(still am) and very pedantic about everything I do, my first stop was buying a Coopers Micro Brew Kit and putting that down to start, was bottled last weekend and now just waiting, its looking good from what I can see, very clear.

I thought I would visit my Local HBS to check it out and while a few things the Guy said opened my eyes up a little more, I found him quite rude and very opinionated about things which is understandable to a point. I mentioned that I just bought a Coopers Kit and his immediate response was commiserations to you, its crap??? All he could say is, what sort of beer do you want to brew and just basically only suggested buying a ND BREWING 15LTR WORT (LITTLE CREATURES STYLE), which I did, and have brewed it and bottled it(now waiting). It was $39 to buy and after looking alot online I am still able to make good beer for less than that?? I think probably $9 of it was for the water in the drum??

And then just basically bagged bottling and said, this is what you need, a keg system. I will eventually get a Keg setup but I thought the whole idea of brewing was to make the brew, ferment it, bottle it and wait for the fruits of your labour?? Maybe he is just trying to boost his profit margin instead of giving down to earth advice, im big on Customer service and will spend money but unfortunately probably not at his store.

Have been looking at some online stores and see some very good pricing on items and freight, would rather sit at home and have it delivered to my door than visit the local HBS. I will be checking out the service at another close one only 20mins drive..

Any comments or advice on my concern.

[NTRabbit]

Well, although using a fresh wort kit like he suggested will usually result in a better beer, you can make plenty fine beer for less using the kit and setup you bought.

As for kegs, well... I have a keg system, but it's only 2 kegs and it cost me near on $800, and that's after getting a chest freezer for free. Much of my brewing still goes into bottles, which while tedious at times, is perfectly fine. A keg system is really just garnish for those who have the money and want to be impressive - try Ross for instance, he had the dosh for it and now has a dedicated external coolroom which holds all 10 kegs he has on tap at any given time.

The guy does sound a little snobbish, but that does tend to happen a lot, especially on sites heavily frequented by All Grain brewers - people who brew their own from scratch with grain, and often lampoon any homebrew made from anything less.

In other words... you're perfectly fine, keep up what you're doing! Check the sticky at the top of this forum for hints on slowly improving your end product as you pick up more experience

[Clean Brewer]

Thanks for the reply,

I thought about the whole keg idea and while it sounds good, i guess you can only really have as many different beers to drink as you've got kegs cold and setup. At least with bottling you can put in the fridge as many different ones you've got brewed as you like, variety is the spice of life I guess. When I eventually stop working all the time(day & night) and get a life and some mates then ill set a keg up(missus wont let me yet anyway), she's fine with me brewing and bottling.

I will just work through the whole process myself and keeping searching through the forums and read, read, read..

Thanks again

[earle]

When I recently went to the HBS in Mackay he tried to push some kegs on me as well. I explained to him that I like to have a wide selection of brews, sometimes up to a dozen or so, and it wouldn't really suit that. I suppose it would work having a quaffer in kegs and selection of others in bottles, but you've still got to have a fridge, gas bottles etc.

He also stated the advantage of being able to force carbonate so that you can be drinking three days after fermentation is complete, however doesn't this contradict the idea that if you can mature your brews for a few months they will improve?

Strangely he also said that his most popular kit lately had been the coopers draught. There goes the theory of them trying to flog the expensive kits.

[ryan]

(missus wont let me yet anyway),

What do you mean, she won`t let you!!!!
Just do what you like and tell her afterwards. That`s what I do.















Did I mention I`ve been married 3 times

[Chris]

As long as you don't let a bad experience turn you away from brewing!

Now that I keg, I'd never go back, but when I first started, bottling was ideal. Less to worry about, cheap, and as previously mentioned, it gives good variety. Even now, 2 kegs at a time in my fridge (or 4 9L).

[39Niner]

earles HBS stated the advantage of being able to force carbonate so that you can be drinking three days after fermentation is complete, however doesn't this contradict the idea that if you can mature your brews for a few months they will improve?


This has bugged me for awhile.
What is the real story.
Three days in the keg or three months in the bottle

Roger

[ryan]

Don`t listen to the heavy duty keggers and all grainers- mad, completely f #####n` mad, the lot of `em.

[rwh]

Beer ages differently (generally quicker) in a keg. Having said that, 3 days after fermentation is just BS.

[warra48]

Eeeeeerrrrrrr,

I'm an all grainer, and I bottle everything. Will never go to kegs. So there !!!
Does that make me only half mad?

Probably explains why my wife has to stop me going out in the middle of the night to howl at the moon.

Edit: Spelling (I am a spelling Nazi, and obviously fully barking mad)

[ryan]

Eeeeeerrrrrrr,

I'm an all grainer, and I bottle evrything. Will never go to kegs. So there !!!
Does that make me only half mad?

Probably explains why my wife has to stop me going out in the middle of the night to howl at the moon.

Sorry warra but you can`t be half mad- you`re either a full quid or you`re not. As for being a grainer and bottling, you`d be as rare as the Southern Blue Throated Sapsucker.
{that`s a bird.}

[gregb]

Did I mention I`ve been married 3 times

Not learning from our mistakes then?

Cheers,
Greg

[ryan]

Gee no- I`ve learned boatloads.
Never marry a woman who eats a curried egg sandwhich before bed was one of the first

[lethaldog]

My god ryan

On topic i am now an all grainer and i have a keg setup with 8 kegs and i also bottle occasionally, my advice is dont listen to others just do what suits you, most of the time you already know the answer to your questions anyway and apart from a few specialty shops i have never had any advice from a HBs that i would bother listening to much less put into practice, go with your gut mate and if you keep brewing then your guts gonna be hard not to take notice of anyway

[ilovechocolate2002]

being a chef, you would know that fresh , quality ingredients are vital...which is why most kits are less than optimal
... if u want to know how to brew an exceptional beer, look thru forums like this one and u will soon pick out which info is suitable for u......i brew mainly all-grain and bottle all of it

[Clean Brewer]

Thanks to the last two responses, as I said, once I get into something I get into it, and I wont be visting the local HBS again, I will just end up getting into an argument and tell him how rude he is, I have been non stop scouring these forums for the last 3 weeks and just what ive picked up has been amazing, it ends up just being a learning curve along the way, sort of like doing an apprenticeship again, just in home brewing, wouldnt that be an awesome job???????????

Ive been a Chef for 14 years and I still learn every day, just imagine what you can know about brewing in 14 years time, you can never know everything...

Thanks Guys.

[kymg]

Well me too.

The bloke I spoke to criticised me for asking about the plastic Coopers bottle - "waddaya want them for" and for enquiring about Cooper kits - "buy 'em from us - the stuff from Woolies isn't as good as the super duper premium Coopers kits that we sell".

Maybe not critical in the scheme of things - but the attitude.

Now I find it is easier to go to Woolies and not suffer the criticism/abuse

This is a real pity cos I'm sure I could learn a heap from the local HBS bloke.

I am not entirely sure that the fella I spoke to the first time owned the store cos when I went again (yeah I know glutton for punishment) there was different fella there who seemed to be better

Cheers

[Chris]

The Coopers plastic bottles are great for starting out with. I bottled a pilsner (my second ever brew) WAY too early. In glass they would've exploded and gone everywhere!

In plastic though, I just kept releasing the gas until they were right. I'm very glad I started with PET!

As for the regular kits vs the 'premium' kits...

I'm not all that sure they're really worth it. All they seem to do is put in a bit of hop aroma and a bit of spec malt. As I do this myself already, it's hard to justify the extra money they cost. Hence AG

[lethaldog]

Well me too.

The bloke I spoke to criticised me for asking about the plastic Coopers bottle - "waddaya want them for" and for enquiring about Cooper kits - "buy 'em from us - the stuff from Woolies isn't as good as the super duper premium Coopers kits that we sell".

Maybe not critical in the scheme of things - but the attitude.

Now I find it is easier to go to Woolies and not suffer the criticism/abuse

This is a real pity cos I'm sure I could learn a heap from the local HBS bloke.

I am not entirely sure that the fella I spoke to the first time owned the store cos when I went again (yeah I know glutton for punishment) there was different fella there who seemed to be better

Cheers

Probably not, if he was so keen to help you then he would have been giving advice and not criticism, most of the time with your general hbs owners i think that the attitude is to try and hide the fact that they dont actually know a great deal about what they are selling you ( this obviously does not apply to everyone) i think what i am trying to say is that to alot of owners it is just a money making business, you will know who the good ones are because they will be the ones that will spend the time to try and help you because they care if you make good beer.

[rohanbutler]

+1 for what Lethal has said. New Brewers need to be wary of what these money hungry guys tell . My local bloke basically tried to tell me that I could harvest wild yeast from rasins and this is only an example of some of the ridicuolus things he has told me. I no longer ask him questions just purchase what i need and get out. Any advice he gives usually revolves around something he wants to sell me and the tone of his voice gives away that he doesn't know what he is talking about, plus now he gets worries when he spots me coming because my brewing techniques are a little bit complicated for his K&K style!

The only reason I shop there is that it is easier to get to and I'm still partial mash brewing and his turn over of extract is high therefore he usually has fresher extract than my preffered melbourne store in yarraville. (that gets plenty of excellent press on this forum). If I was all grain brewing I COULDN'T do business with him, I would clear him out of grain with just 1 5kg brew!