Safale US-04

[billybushcook]

Iv'e got two brews down at the moment using US-04 for the first time, one K&K CPA with BE2 & the other the same with 200grams of pale crystal steeped in.

Both fired up OK & have been fermenting slow but steady, very steady compared with what I'm used to (Coopers kit yeast).
I had them sitting on 18 Deg for the first 7 days & being as they were so slow, I have bumped them up to 19Deg,
It is now day 9 & would expect the plain K&K brew to be about done but it still has small pin sized bubbles rising to the surface, as it has since day 3. (I'm expecting the steeped brew to go a few days longer due to the extra fermentables)

The yeast was re-hydrated & earated before pitching at 22Deg,
Q. how long & how slow would you expect US-04 to normally ferment a K&K @ 18-19Deg?

& please don't tell me to take hydrometer readings & risk infection by sucking air in!!!
I can plainly see that it is still fermenting through the cling wrap!
I would just like to get an idea of how long US-04 would normally go for at this temp,

For example, the same brew would normally take dead on 8 days @ 22. & the steeped brew has taken 11 days before (Coopers kit yeast @ 22)

Cheers, Mick.

[chadjaja]

Thats normal compared to a coopers yeast. Just leave it for two weeks period and enjoy a cleaner, clearer beer. Best advice I had when it came to fermentation when I started out again.

[drsmurto]

Iv'e got two brews down at the moment using US-04 for the first time, one K&K CPA with BE2 & the other the same with 200grams of pale crystal steeped in.

Both fired up OK & have been fermenting slow but steady, very steady compared with what I'm used to (Coopers kit yeast).
I had them sitting on 18 Deg for the first 7 days & being as they were so slow, I have bumped them up to 19Deg,
It is now day 9 & would expect the plain K&K brew to be about done but it still has small pin sized bubbles rising to the surface, as it has since day 3. (I'm expecting the steeped brew to go a few days longer due to the extra fermentables)

The yeast was re-hydrated & earated before pitching at 22Deg,
Q. how long & how slow would you expect US-04 to normally ferment a K&K @ 18-19Deg?

& please don't tell me to take hydrometer readings & risk infection by sucking air in!!!
I can plainly see that it is still fermenting through the cling wrap!
I would just like to get an idea of how long US-04 would normally go for at this temp,

For example, the same brew would normally take dead on 8 days @ 22. & the steeped brew has taken 11 days before (Coopers kit yeast @ 22)

Cheers, Mick.

Mick

S-04 not US-04 is an english ale yeast and a definite step up from Coopers kit yeasts IMHO. Its a light blue packet as opposed to the similarly named S-05 (previously US-05) that comes in a pale red packet

So you can see the krausen on top of the beer? How do you know its still fermenting? Bubbles rising to the surface arent necessarily an indication of fermentation.

9 days seems a tad long for primary fermentation (altho i leave mine in primary for 2 weeks to allow the yeast to clean up any fermentation by-products) and i would strongly suggest taking an SG reading. I wouldnt worry about sucking air in, you will still have a layer of CO2 and by the sounds of it CO2 is coming out of solution.

Taking SG readings are good practice. I'm not sure where you got the idea it wasnt. Its crucial before bottling to have a stable FG and you cant tell that by eye!

Cheers
DrSmurto

[Bum]

Iv'e got two brews down at the moment using US-04 for the first time, one K&K CPA with BE2 & the other the same with 200grams of pale crystal steeped in.

My last brew was something very similar to the second you mention but with S-05 (and a kilo of LDME instead of the BE2). Dunno how different these two yeasts work but it took 10 days to ferment out at 18deg. Hope that's of some help to you.

[billybushcook]

Thx guys,
Doc, the initial foam/Krausen has gone & is now a single, sparse layer of bubbles/foam, in the small clear patches I can still see activity, the wort has already started to clear out so once the activity stops it will be going into the fridge for cold conditioning.

I stopped using my hydrometer years ago because it was so predictable doing the same brew every time & the cling wrap lets me see the four stages of fermentation at a glance, normally by now it would be dorment & clear, crystal clear (looking midnight black in an old black Brigalow fermenter), That's when I know I have a stable SG. It's not like looking through a semi clear lid or sides, the cling wrap is completely clear & easy to pick any difference in brew activity or clarity.
mind you, I have never used this yeast or brewed at this low a temp so an SG reading might have been worth while but impracticle now as I would have to lift the fermenter out of the hot box & risk upsetting the layer of Co2 & not game to do that now it is almost done!

Cheers, Mick.

[drsmurto]

Thx guys,
Doc, the initial foam/Krausen has gone & is now a single, sparse layer of bubbles/foam, in the small clear patches I can still see activity, the wort has already started to clear out so once the activity stops it will be going into the fridge for cold conditioning.

I stopped using my hydrometer years ago because it was so predictable doing the same brew every time & the cling wrap lets me see the four stages of fermentation at a glance, normally by now it would be dorment & clear, crystal clear (looking midnight black in an old black Brigalow fermenter), That's when I know I have a stable SG. It's not like looking through a semi clear lid or sides, the cling wrap is completely clear & easy to pick any difference in brew activity or clarity.
mind you, I have never used this yeast or brewed at this low a temp so an SG reading might have been worth while but impracticle now as I would have to lift the fermenter out of the hot box & risk upsetting the layer of Co2 & not game to do that now it is almost done!

Cheers, Mick.

Will continue to play devils advocate Mick....

So the beer appears to have finished. Or at least, the yeast has stopped converting the sugars to alcohol and CO2 (the visible CO2 rising to the surface may just be excess CO2 formed during fermentation coming out of solution - CO2 is a gas and doesnt like being dissolved). That doesn't mean it has reached FG. By bottling it without taking a SG reading you still risk bottling it early.

If the yeast 'goes to sleep' too early it would still appear the job is done if going by eye. The act of bottling will rouse up the yeast and if it hasnt finished converting the sugars to alcohol and CO2 then KABOOM.

I am sure you know your system and since you make the same beer ad infinitum you are probably safe but i'd hate for a new brewer to read this thread and decide taking hydrometer readings are unnecessary.

Despite the fact my beers stay in primary for a minimum of 2 weeks i always take an SG reading prior to racking. That way i know if the beer is at FG. I generally find the SG drops a point or 2 during secondary which if i was bottling would be bad.

Going back to your actual issue, its sounds like the S-04 is done. It wont clear as fast as the Coopers kit yeast which is designed to ferment a wort in 3-4 days flat then pack its bags and head south post haste. If you did take an SG reading you would probably find its near FG if not already there but leaving it a another few days to clear is the way to go.

I assume since you dont like taking SG readings you probably have an aversion to racking as well? If so, how do you clear the beer or does that not bother you?

[billybushcook]

normally by now it would be dorment & clear, crystal clear (looking midnight black in an old black Brigalow fermenter), That's when I know I have a stable SG. It's not like looking through a semi clear lid or sides, the cling wrap is completely clear & easy to pick any difference in brew activity or clarity.

Cheers, Mick.

I assume since you dont like taking SG readings you probably have an aversion to racking as well? If so, how do you clear the beer or does that not bother you?

As said above, the wort becomes so clear when done that it looks black as black in the Brigalow fermenter, so clear that I when I bottle, I can see any scratches or marks on the bottle filler tube while full of beer, It also leaves me with just a thin, dust like layer of sediment, stuck well & truly to the bottom of the bottles & can pour the whole bottle without up setting it!
I some times cold condition if I don't have time to bottle on that particular day but don't notice any difference with the K&K brews.
Having said that, I noticed the last one I did with some steeped grain, really needed to be cold conditioned, it was still a bit cloudy when I bottled & will be CCing the steeped brew I have down at present (without racking)

So in essence I have not had a problem with clarity up til now, & will see how these steeped grain beers go!

I think Warra does a similar thing, from memory he is a fellow Cling Wrapper who rarely uses a hyd, as well??? could be wrong???

Mick.

[Trough Lolly]

G'day Mick - interesting thread...

Doc's advice, as usual, is sound and well worth heeding...One other point that we all need to bear in mind is not to confuse attenuation of yeast with flocculation properties of yeast. SO-4 is a good active yeast but some find it very quick to flocc out (ie, drop out of solution) and often that occurs before the beer has reached final gravity when you ferment it relatively cool. I would be very careful not to take inactivity as a sign that the beer is ready to bottle, no matter how many times you've done this beer - I have roused stouts at 16C and had an extra 8 or so points of gravity fall out of the beer.

It's your call mate, but after 14 or so years of brewing, I'm still cautious with botting beer relatively early on when I'm using SO-4, and even more so if I ignored taking any gravity readings, which I would never do.

Cheers,
TL

[warra48]

I agree with DrS and TL.

I always leave my beers in primary for two weeks, minimum, before bottling. And yes, I do clingwrap my fermenter.

I take hydro readings during the brewing process to work out my efficiencies, and I always take one before I bottle a brew.
There has been the odd occasion when I've delayed bottling, because I haven't been satisfied the SG has dropped down far enough.

Bottle bombs are dangerous, and I do my best to avoid them. Haven't had one since 1973.

[billybushcook]

Yeh, I'm hear'n ya guys,
Thats why I asked the question, because this is a temp & yeast that I have not used before.
For 17 yrs I have been doing pretty much the same brew over & over, with a predictable & agressive kit yeast, thats why I didn't need to monitor it so closely, with stable temps & fresh kits it was always the same.
I did notice how quick the unsteeped brew flocced out & I did not guage activity by this, but by day 10 she was completely dorment & whent into the fridge for cold conditioning, the steeped brew whent another two days (12).

Iv'e now got one down as follows,
CPA
BE2
200g pale crystal (steeped)
12g PoR pellets 5Mins
S-04

So I might have to dust off the Hyd, again.
But have always been sus, about sucking air in when I take a reading, especially once activity has dropped off !!

Cheers, Mick.

[warra48]

But have always been sus, about sucking air in when I take a Hydro reading, especially once activity has dropped off !
Cheers, Mick.

Don't worry about this. The amount you are withdrawing is so small that there is no way you can replace the blanket of CO2 which sits on top of your brew in your fermenter. As CO2 is heavier than air, your beer will stay blanketed and protected, no wuckas.

[billybushcook]

Last night I had one of those "Like Derrrr" moments, when I threw the hydrometer into a brew I was just about to bottle & put the cling wrap back over it while I washed my bottles.
When I first started using cling wrap this is how I used to use the hyd, just chuck it in on day 3-4 when the brew is still active but the heavy Krausen has died off, & I can just see where it is at with out having to tap any off!

So it is now floating in the brew I mentioned in my last post....Too Easy!!!!

Cheers, Mick.

[svyturys]

Billybushcook,
I'm impressed with your concept. A hydrometer floating permanently. Just watch it drop day by day. What brain cells I've got left are having a party. What if we had a hydrometer with a big digital readout that could be clearly seen through the gladwrap?
There could be a market for someone who could design it.
Cheers

Oh yes, for Warra's benefit...I have done my first clingwrap today.

[SUBREW]

No reason why you couldn't leave the hydrometer in the fermentor but several things I'd be wary of;

1) make sure it is sanitised!
2) bubbles could form on the Hydrometer lifting it and giving a false reading.
3) Would be sods law that it floats to the edge and get stuck in the crap on the side of the fermentor!
4) Depending on fermentor and position of hydrometer it might be difficult to get a clear, level view to take a reading?

All in all I suspect I'd end up having to remove cover and spin / move hydrometer anyway to get a acurate reading?

Let us know how it goes. Any step that saves time while improving results is worth ago...

Cheers

SUBREW

[billybushcook]

The Hydrometer I'm using sits high enough that it can't touch the crud stuck to the sides when it is filled to the usual level, because it hits the curved "neck" of the fermenter first & I can even move it around by hand if I leave a little slack in the cling wrap.
So all good, as long as it goes in (sterilised) after the heavy Krausen has finished (if this stuck to it , it would give a false reading)

& it is as easy as monitoring my brews by a quick look through the cling wrap, same as before!!!

I can feel a photo coming on!!

Cheers, Mick.

[drsmurto]

Last night I had one of those "Like Derrrr" moments, when I threw the hydrometer into a brew I was just about to bottle & put the cling wrap back over it while I washed my bottles.
When I first started using cling wrap this is how I used to use the hyd, just chuck it in on day 3-4 when the brew is still active but the heavy Krausen has died off, & I can just see where it is at with out having to tap any off!

So it is now floating in the brew I mentioned in my last post....Too Easy!!!!

Cheers, Mick.

Let me get this straight.

You are worried about a few molecules of air getting into your beer when taking hydro readings by taking a sample out thru the tap (the method most of us use and as Warra explained to you, is perfectly safe) and instead put something INTO your beer and let it swim around for days.

Now picture me repeatedly slamming my head into my desk......

[billybushcook]

What if we had a hydrometer with a big digital readout that could be clearly seen through the gladwrap?
There could be a market for someone who could design it.

That leads me to another idea......

If you sit your fermenter on an accurate set of scales (very accurate) & know the exact volume of liquid, subtract the net weight of the fermenter & you can calculate the sg.
in other words, when the weight gets down to the combined weight of the fermenter + liquid, or remains the same over two days, your done!!
23Litres of sg 1.0 = 23 Kg

Density being equal to mass/volume.
sg is just a relation to the density of water being 1Ton per cubic Meter ie. 1Kg/Litre

F@%K it, I'm stickin to the hydrometer in the brew trick!! LOL

[billybushcook]

Let me get this straight.

You are worried about a few molecules of air getting into your beer when taking hydro readings by taking a sample out thru the tap (the method most of us use and as Warra explained to you, is perfectly safe) and instead put something INTO your beer and let it swim around for days.

Now picture me repeatedly slamming my head into my desk......

The main problem is Doc,
My beers are done in an old deep freezer, to tap any off, they would have to be lifted out!!!!

You can stop slamming your head on the table now!!!LOL

Cheers, Mick.

[Trough Lolly]

I see! said the blind man....Hey Mick, is that a fishtank heater power lead coming out of your fermenter? I used to use a heat pad for my fermenter until I realised that my beers weren't tasting too good when they were being fermented at 26C!! ...but that's another story.

Now that we know what your brewing environment is, I can see the logic of sticking the hydrometer in the brew. I can also see the need to make sanitation a key protocol before you insert said hydrometer. Once glance at the walls of your deep freezer tell me that you're brewing in a relatively hostile environment...but it shouldn't stop you from leaving a clean hydrometer in the fermenter. Just remember thought that once you do that, you can't use the hydrometer for anything else, eg, if you decide to do a double batch.

Cheers,
TL

[Kevnlis]

I will make another observation based on that pic, which is not at all on topic.

Your caps look like they have been pressed on fairly hard (mighyt be the reflection of the light), believe it or not you can "over cap" the bottles. By making that large dent in the top of the cap you are increasing the chances of the seal not forming. You can do one of two things to solve this, press less hard on the capper lever, or tip each bottle upside down after capping and give it a good shake to be sure the seal is good.