English IPA

[rotten]

Gday all.
I'm brewing an English IPA with everything on the upper end of the scale. However, I don't want it to taste like I just put a shit load of hops in it. It looks pretty good to me so far, your thoughts?
P.S. would you dry hop?

English IPA

Original Gravity (OG): 1.071 (°P): 17.3
Colour (SRM): 7.2 (EBC): 14.2
Bitterness (IBU): 55.6 (Average)

100% Maris Otter Malt

2 g/L Fuggles (5.7% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
1.5 g/L Fuggles (5.7% Alpha) @ 40 Minutes (Boil)
1.5 g/L East Kent Golding (4.7% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil)
1.5 g/L East Kent Golding (4.7% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil)


Single step Infusion at 66°C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 20°C with Wyeast 1469 - West Yorkshire Ale


Recipe Generated with BrewMate

[rotten]

Going to change explanation of hop additions

20 ltr batch
40 g fuggles @ 60 min
30 g fuggles @ 40 min
30 g EKG @ 20 min
30 g EKG @ 5 min

[warra48]

Your predicted OG and IBU look OK to me.

I do find I need to mash Maris Otter for 1½ to 2 hours to get the best efficiency from it with my system, although I am aware some others find that not to be the case.

Personally, if I was to design the hop schedule, I would concentrate the flavour and aroma hops into the last 15 minutes and at flameout. I would drop the 40 minute addition, and increase the 60 minute addition to give you the same overall IBU. Dry hopping with either Fuggles or EKG would be a good idea, and is certainly in style, 1 g/L would be good.

For me, I also would do a 90 minute boil. I think DrSmurto does that, and I think he posted recently as to why he does it. I know all that adds another hour to your brewday, but to me it would be worth it.

However, it's your beer so do what looks good to you!

[rotten]

Thanks Warra48.
What looks good, and tastes good are different which is why I posted it. I beleive the reasoning for drsmurtos 90 min boil was for a better hot break, and to allow time for proteins to evaporate that cause chill haze, before adding hops. Increasing mash length sounds good too, I did it with a few low OG Milds with good results.
Concentrating flavour and aroma later in the boil is matching other comments I have had. I thought balance would be to spread the load so to speak.
Will post adjusted recipe later.

[drsmurto]

If you are going to stick with just base malt i would probably up the mash temp to 67-68C. I do a 90 min mash as standard for single infusions regardless of the base malt.

Like Warra, i wouldn't bother with the 40 min addition. Stick with the flavour and aroma additions in the last 15-20 mins and the bittering at 60. If you were to dry hop i would use EKG over Fuggles so perhaps move the EKG from 5 mins to dry hop and add Fuggles at 5 mins instead. Or half the additions and use both at each time (ie. 15g each at 20, 15g each at 5 etc)

I do an english IPA a few times a year and take a simple approach like you have. I do add a few % of choc malt for colour and a little malt complexity and have used the west yorky yeast in it with success.

[rotten]

Thanks for replies guys. Very valuable as always.
I may add 50 g roast barley for a bit more colour?
Will mash @ 67c for 90 min, Boil for 90 min.

English IPA
English IPA

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 20.0
Total Grain (kg): 6.000
Total Hops (g): 130.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.071 (°P): 17.3
Colour (SRM): 7.2 (EBC): 14.2
Bitterness (IBU): 62.7 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 75
Boil Time (Minutes): 90

Grain Bill
----------------
6.000 kg Maris Otter Malt (100%)

Hop Bill
----------------
70.0 g Fuggles Pellet (5.7% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (3.5 g/L)
15.0 g East Kent Golding Pellet (4.7% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (0.8 g/L)
15.0 g Fuggles Pellet (5.7% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (0.8 g/L)
15.0 g East Kent Golding Pellet (4.7% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.8 g/L)
15.0 g Fuggles Pellet (5.7% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.8 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------

Single step Infusion at 67°C for 90 Minutes.
Fermented at 20°C with Wyeast 1469 - West Yorkshire Ale


Recipe Generated with BrewMate

[rotten]

Well this tastes awesome. My first true EIPA. The flavours are prominent, as is the aroma. The bitterness is there but not over the top. It could be classed as grassy, but I doubt it. Give it a few more weeks and it could be a world beater
(IMHO)
Cheers guys

[Trough Lolly]

Congrats Rotten - it isn't easy to make a balanced IPA with only base malt. Mash temp is pretty important when you're doing a base malt only beer - admittedly MO is an excellent choice, but having made a 100% MO mild the other day, they are a touch light on in colour and the hops can easily overbalance the flavour profile so I chuck in a bit of choc malt. Any particular reason you didn't want crystal our a darker malt in there to help smooth out the flavour profile?

Cheers,
TL

[rotten]

Congrats Rotten - it isn't easy to make a balanced IPA with only base malt. Mash temp is pretty important when you're doing a base malt only beer - admittedly MO is an excellent choice, but having made a 100% MO mild the other day, they are a touch light on in colour and the hops can easily overbalance the flavour profile so I chuck in a bit of choc malt. Any particular reason you didn't want crystal our a darker malt in there to help smooth out the flavour profile?

Cheers,
TL

Thanks TL. Only reason I didn't use a crystal or choc malt inparticular is I'm still to stock up on spec malts. Going to Adelaide for the cricket next week so that may be the time, will depend on bank funds as always.
Cheers

[squirt in the turns]

I'm resurrecting this thread as I'm going to have a crack at an English IPA as part of a chain of beers I'll be fermenting from a single pack of Wyeast 1187 (Ringwood Ale).

The first 2 beers in this chain will be very similar TTL type best bitters, both with TF Maris Otter as the base, one with a little Caraaroma and one with Carabohemian. Hop schedule is based on the DrS method here, adapted for no-chill: the first one will have a Styrian Goldings hop tea added, the second will have an SG cube addition and be chucked in the pool to "chill".

After these 2 beers I should have remaining 46g each of EKG and SG, and 20g of Fuggles that I'm sure I can put to use, but I want this to be a really hoppy IPA, and at any rate, I'm not just trying to make an IPA version of the previous 2 batches. Therefore I ask for advice regarding what additional hops I should consider for bittering, flavour and aroma.

Similarly, I want to mix up the grain bill a bit, maybe go with something other than MO. Golden Promise, perhaps? Also, is it suitable to include some wheat malt? I'm thinking this will aid with head retention in a reasonably strong beer (I'll be aiming for an OG around 1.070). Perhaps even dark wheat for colour and flavour, or use some cara-something-or-other for that?

Cheers folks.

[rotten]

G'day squirt.
I have done a few more of these since and did make a few changes myself. I replaced some MO with some simple base malt, and also munich 11. Try 40/40/20 % in that order. Have done some AIPA's as well with same amounts in mind with great results. I don't know how to describe it other than it gave me a bit of everything, and was balanced. Keep a high OG with a IBU of around 60-70, and you can't go wrong.
As far as the hops go, get some more fuggles, maybe add some styrian goldings, I would stick with fuggles and EKG though.
Let us know how you go.
Cheers

[squirt in the turns]

Thanks for the advice, Rotten. I got to Craftbrewer and everything you wrote pretty much went out the window
I meant to ask you for more details on the reasoning behind substituting simple pale for MO. When I talked the recipe through with the guy at CB (I think it was Anthony), his thoughts were that it would just reduce the malt character of the beer. Maybe if this one turns out too malty (or even if it doesn't) I'll make another with the ratios you used.

I likewise ignored your advice about the hops too This is basically going to be an English hop salad . Again, I'll probably try again later and simplify the hop bill. It's just that with the two TTL clones I brewed using Fuggles, SG and EKG, it felt like I would just be making the same beer a third time (albeit at a much higher OG).

I brewed this on Saturday, no chilled, without any late boil hops at all. I'm going to use the mini boil method (courtesy of Argon from AHB) to do the late additions.

What I have so far is:

Recipe: English IPA
Brewer: Matt
Asst Brewer:
Style: English IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 24.00 L
Boil Size: 27.47 L
Estimated OG: 1.065 SG
Estimated Color: 31.3 EBC
Estimated IBU: 57.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.40 kg Maris Otter (TF Floor Malted) (5.6 EBC) Grain 62.86 %
1.40 kg Munich Malt - 10L (19.7 EBC) Grain 20.00 %
0.50 kg Wheat Malt, Bel (3.9 EBC) Grain 7.14 %
0.35 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (118.2 EBC) Grain 5.00 %
0.35 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (236.4 EBC) Grain 5.00 %
45.00 gm Target [9.40 %] (60 min) Hops 38.1 IBU
20.00 gm Challenger [7.00 %] (20 min) (First Wort Hops) 8.4 IBU
20.00 gm Styrian Goldings [5.00 %] (20 min) (First Wort Hops) 6.0 IBU
20.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.50 %] (20 min) (First Wort Hops) 5.4 IBU
0.32 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1.27 tbsp PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
12.68 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 7.00 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
75 min Mash In Add 18.26 L of water at 71.9 C 65.6 C
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It came out at 1.070.
The first wort hops were entered into BS as 20 mins as per popular opinion on how to calculate their utilisation (of course, they were in the boil the whole time). To calculate the late hops, I have scaled the recipe down to 3L in BS, added 10 mins to the bittering and FWH additions and started playing with combinations of the English hops that I have left (20 to 23 g each EKG, Fuggles and SG, plus half a pack of Challenger). Here's what I'm thinking of doing:
7.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.50 %] (10 min) Hops 8.2 IBU
7.00 gm Fuggles [5.50 %] (10 min) Hops 10.0 IBU
7.00 gm Challenger [7.00 %] (10 min) Hops 12.8 IBU
7.00 gm Styrian Goldings [5.00 %] (10 min) Hops 9.1 IBU
7.00 gm Fuggles [5.50 %] (5 min) Hops 5.5 IBU
7.00 gm Challenger [7.00 %] (5 min) Hops 7.0 IBU
7.00 gm Styrian Goldings [5.00 %] (5 min) Hops 5.0 IBU
7.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.50 %] (5 min) Hops 4.5 IBU
7.00 gm Fuggles [5.50 %] (0 min) Hops -
7.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.50 %] (0 min) Hops -
7.00 gm Styrian Goldings [5.00 %] (0 min) Hops -
7.00 gm Challenger [7.00 %] (0 min) Hops -

Edit: to simplify the above, it's basically 7 g each of Challanger, Fuggles, Styrian Goldings and EKG at 10, 5 and 0 mins.

Too much

This gives 3 L of 126.5 IBU wort (taking the original 57.9 IBU into account). 3 L @ 126.5 IBU + 22 L @ 57.9 = 25 L total batch vol @ 66.13 IBU - should be bitter enough I hope.

Might also dry hop it with Challanger. Even more too much?

Sorry for the monster post folks. Any advice would be much appreciated. I'll try not to ignore it this time

[emnpaul]

I'd expect the Challenger to dominate. If it was me I'd halve it for your boil additions and go a big whack of EKG for dry hopping. But that's just me, so feel free to disregard my advice as it's quite often suspect anyway.

Cheers
Paul

[drsmurto]

Popular opinion is wrong.

I can't understand the logic of adding something to the wort prior to it boiling and expecting it to sit there magically not being affected by the boiling wort whilst hops added to the boiling wort are. Do first wort hops have a magical shield? A cloak of stupdity perhaps but no magic shield.

Subtle I am not but it really pisses me off the amount of retarded shite being marketed as advice on brewing forums.

First wort hops do provide a smoother bitterness in my experience. FWH hops will contribute more IBU as they are in the wort as it nears the boil which will isomerise the alpha acids. From memory (as i don't have beersmith in front of me), FWH hops will add 5-10% more IBU than a 60 min addition assuming you are boiling for 60 mins.

So recalculate your above hop schedule and shift your FWH hops to 60 min additions to see how much IBU you will actually have produced.

Cheers
DrSmurto - a pre-coffee grumpy synthetic chemist

p.s squirt in the turns, this isn't directed at you personally, more of a wake up call that everything people read on the internet isn't fact *GASP*.

[squirt in the turns]

I'd expect the Challenger to dominate. If it was me I'd halve it for your boil additions and go a big whack of EKG for dry hopping. But that's just me, so feel free to disregard my advice as it's quite often suspect anyway.
Paul

Thanks, Paul. I don't really have a "big whack" of EKG left, just about 21g. I kind of wanted to just use what I've got in the freezer, so one way or another, this beer is probably going to get 21g each of Styrian Goldings, EKG and Fuggles, plus another load of Challenger. I don't necessarily mind if it dominates, as I've never use it before, so would like a get a good sense of its characteristics (although a single hop beer is probably a better way to do that). Maybe I'll swap the schedule around, and save all the EKG for dry hopping.

Popular opinion is wrong...

p.s squirt in the turns, this isn't directed at you personally, more of a wake up call that everything people read on the internet isn't fact *GASP*.

No worries Doc. I have never assumed that anything published on the internet is fact (with the exception of the writings of yourself and a few other learned folks around here ). I'm just muddling through as best I can and hoping to learn something first hand in the process.

So, adjusting the FWH additions to 60 mins gives a total IBU of 78.5 (proportionally blending the mini boil IBUs with the cubed wort IBUs as before). This gives a BU:GU ratio of 1.12, which I hope is still appropriate for an English IPA. I did include quite a lot of crystal malt, but also mashed quite low...

What I have read (again, on the internet ) is that while FWH chemically contribues more IBUs, the perceived bitterness is lower (as you say Doc, perhaps best characterised as "smoother"). Also, I have failed to take into account the age of any of these hops (2008 to 2010, I think, vacuum packed, and however else CB store them).

At any rate, I'd much rather it be too bitter than sweet.

[rotten]

At any rate, I'd much rather it be too bitter than sweet.

G'day squirt. Your comment above is why i used some pale and munich 2 in later versions. It wasn't over the top sweet though. I mashed one at the same temp as the original, and one a bit lower to give it a slightly thinner body. I still had a great malt profile, and from memory the hops came through more.

I liked it that much I used the same malt and percentages for my first few AIPA attempts as well, just different hops and yeast.
Good luck.

[squirt in the turns]

I wanted to do the mini boil and pitch this one tonight, so last night I pitched some WY1187 Ringwood Ale yeast into 2L of wort I recovered by straining the kettle trub from the main batch (been in the fridge since brewday and re-boiled and cooled before adding yeast).

Woke up to this:





It blew the glad wrap right off, and had been merrily spewing forth since an unknown hour of the night. I immediately transferred it to a sanitised 4L plastic bottle, which should be able to contain it.

I know others have had over-eager English ale yeast starters making a break for freedom. What is the best course of action here? Write it off as too risky to pitch, and start over? If it looks, smells and tastes ok tonight, is it likely to be ok? Should I be able to tell by then if anything bad got in?

It was in my brew box, which is clean, but not air-tight.

[rotten]

Is squirts post supposed to be a different thread?

To answer though squirt, I don't know.

[squirt in the turns]

Is squirts post supposed to be a different thread?

Well, no. As it's the latest chapter of my ongoing IPA saga, I figured I'd post it here. Sorry for the total threadjacking

I've never tried saving proper AG wort from a brewday to make a starter, which is obviously one of the possible benefits of no chill. I was hoping to pitch this starter today while it was in high gear, but in light of potential contamination, I'll let it ferment out, which I hope will give enough time for any bugs to make themselves known. If it's good, I'll pitch the whole thing anyway - the extra 2 L in the fermenter should give a nice boost to my overall efficiency.

[rotten]

Youre not hijacking mate.

Have a look at the title above your yeast pic, it says 'Just asking for it'.

edit: never mind, it appears you can change the name of the thread when you reply.
Sorry