Amber Ale - Your thoughts?

[pmclaren11]

Hi all,

Would like some feedback for the following recipe. I am aiming for a rogers style, hoppy amber ale:

1 tin Morgan’s Royal Oak Amber Ale
1.5kg liquid amber malt (or Morgans Caramalt)
150g crystal grain malt (Steeped for 30 mins)
10g Chinook @ 15 mins (this is all I have left)
15g Cascade @ 10 mins
15g willamette @ 5 mins
x2 Kit Yeasts ( I have an old one left over- I assume I can just chuck this in to get rid of it?)

Would this achieve the style I am after?

Cheers and Beers.

[emnpaul]

G'day

I've not tried a Rogers Amber Ale so can't comment there. However I made an amber ale last April using:
1.7kg Morgans Red Oak Amber Ale kit
1.5kg tin of Coopers amber malt,
450g dextrose
250g corn syrup
12g Fuggles
12g Goldoings
Kit yeast

It turned out so sweet as to be virtually un-drinkable for about the first six months, and even now only good in small doses. My thoughts are that you'd want to drop the crystal and maybe look at doing a sixty minute boil with the chinook to help balance it out. Perhaps even swap the amber malt for a tin of pale malt and add some chocolate malt, say 100g, to get the colour a bit darker, if necessary.

Won't hurt to chuck in the extra yeast or if possible make a starter as I think the Morgans yeasts are only 7g packs to begin with.

More learned folk than I may be able to offer a better suggestion and help you get close to a Rogers Amber.

Cheers
Paul

Edit: The Morgans website claims "a high hop level". I found this not to be the case. It could definitely accomodate more bitterness IMO.

[Lachy]

I've had the same issue with the Morgans Red Oak Amber Ale kit - it seemed to produce a very sweet beer. I tried it as an early brew attempting to replicate a Bright Brewery Hellfire Amber Ale, however the result was by far the sweetest beer I've made and definitely "not right". Adding a good whack of caramalt or amber malt will IMHO accentuate this. I do like your thinking with Chinook, Cascade and Willamette to get that Little Creatures hop signature.

I've made something that was not worlds away from LC Roger's using the following recipe:

Coopers draught
500g liquid amber malt
200g LDME
200g maltodextrin
100g chocolate malt steeped
100g crystal malt steeped
25g cascade @ 10 min
25g cascade @ flameout
US-05

Made to 23l.

[pmclaren11]

Thanks for the replys. After re-thinking the recipe would this reduce the sweetness?

Now more thinking of a mid strength - like the actual Rogers:

1 tin Morgan’s Royal Oak Amber Ale
500g LDM or BE 2 (suggestions?)
50g Crystal Grain steeped 30 mins (do I even need this?)
10g Chinook @ 20 mins
15g Cascade @ 15 mins
15g willamette @ 5 mins
x2 Kit Yeasts
22lts

Certainly don't want a sweet beer!

Thanks again for your help.

[drsmurto]

I think your 2nd recipe looks the best although i would get rid of ther williamette.

Rogers is cascade with a little chinook

James Squire Amber Ale is williamette.

So your last hop schedule seems a muddled version of the 2.

Do yourself a favour and buy a packet of US05 and use the kit yeasts as yeast nutrient by boiling them up with the hops.

Since you are aiming for a lower alcohol beer i would stick with all malt. By reducing the amount of fermentables you are already reducing the body of your beer, using a brew enhancer which contains dextrose would only make it even thinner.

Steeping some crystal is a good idea in a low alc beer as it gives more body. I'd up that to 200g of a pale crystal.

I make an AG Rogers inspired beer - recipe here - Link

I use whatever hops i have on hand. Chinook and cascade is much closer to the real Rogers but my recipe is not intended as a clone. I just wanted a light, hoppy amber ale.

[pmclaren11]

Thanks this is great stuff.

So I am now thinking:

Morgans Amber Ale Tin
500g Light Dry Malt
200g Crystal Grain
10g Chinook @ 20mins
15g Cascade @ 15 mins
15g Cascade @ 5 mins
US 05 Yeast

Does this look better? I have some choc grain on hand - would this be a useful addition? If so what amounts would be recommended?

With the kit yeasts - do I understand correctly that I can steep the grains, strain the liquid and then boil up with the hops and just add these kit yeasts as nutrients?

Thanks again.

[billybushcook]

Does this look better? I have some choc grain on hand - would this be a useful addition? If so what amounts would be recommended?
.

your Choc Malt will require a mash - basically a steep, but watch the temp, keep it @ mid to high 60's for an hr & use 2.5 - 3L per Kg. ( I prefer closer to 3L/Kg)

Amount? not sure what your looking for, but with Choc, a little goes a long way.
This will depend alot on what the kit will bring to the beer. I don't do Kits any more so I can't comment on this but at a rough guess I would think 0.125Kg would be a starter & 0.25KG would be tops.

Doc's AG recipe definately puts the emphasis on late additions of Hops. 5g of Amarillo @ 60 Mins is barely a bittering addition at all, but 30g @ 20 obviously picks it up.

With the kit yeasts - do I understand correctly that I can steep the grains, strain the liquid and then boil up with the hops and just add these kit yeasts as nutrients?
.

Not sure if you got what he was saying here?
Add your kit yeast to the boil. the heat will kill the yeast & make a usable nutrient.

Mick.

[Bum]

your Choc Malt will require a mash

All the choc malt I've used and am aware of are steepable as spec grains - they require neither mashing nor diastatic power of other grains.

Happy to be corrected if different brands vary, of course.

[matr]

your Choc Malt will require a mash

All the choc malt I've used and am aware of are steepable as spec grains - they require neither mashing nor diastatic power of other grains.

Happy to be corrected if different brands vary, of course.

Correct. You only need to steep Choc malt as seen here http://www.bodensatz.com/staticpages/index.php?page=Grains

In saying that I would steep at mashing temps anyway (when I was doing it) however I have heard of people cold steeping.

[billybushcook]

Yeh, sorry guys, Just been back to check on the one I'm using & it is only a steep

Must remember to be a little more observant when posting 3 parts smashed

Mick.

[pmclaren11]

Thanks all - will give myabove recipe a good minus the choc malt I think and will report back.

Thanks again for your input!

[earle]

I reckon you want some choc malt in an amber ale. Just go 50g in with your crystal that you're steeping. Will add some colour, a little flavour but won't be enough to add any bitterness.

[pmclaren11]

Thanks earle - will go with 50g Choc with the 200g Crystal.

[Bum]

Must remember to be a little more observant when posting 3 parts smashed

Let's not get carried away and set a precedent the rest of us might be obliged to follow!

Not a huge error (and probably good practice for later brewing techniques anyway). Only reason I pointed it out was in case it put pmclaren11 off using the grain altogether.

[Lachy]

I'm going to try a variant of the above, however my LHBS is asking $20 for the Morgans can alone... stuff that. Coopers original line are about $10-$12 at the local Woolies, so I'm thinking of using either the Australian Pale Ale from the international series, or real ale, draught or lager from the original series. Any thoughts?

[drsmurto]

The can of goo is irrelevant in recipes like this which has crystal malts and extra hops. '

I am a big advocate of kit brewing using the palest, lowest hopped can you can get (Coopers Lager fits the bill and is usually cheap). Add all the flavour and aroma via fresh grain and hops. An extra 30 mins of your time for a beer that will reward that effort tenfold.

You can even brew a much nicer stout using a cooper lagers tin by steeping choc malt and roasted barley.

[Lachy]

Sounds like a good philosophy, Doc. I've got Coopers Pale in the cupboard at the moment - from memory it's pretty pale and about 18.5 IBU so that should fit the bill nicely.

[Sonny]

KILKENNY Style - Morgan`s Royal Oak Amber Ale/1.5kg Liquid Amber Malt/Kit yeast & Nutrient + 12 g Fuggles hops last. (23L) 1044SG/1018FG @ 3.49%Alc, Kit yeast at 24deg.

Cracked one last night after 7wks in the bottle.

T'is going to be nice this drop. Yes it's sweet but a good sweet. Tastes special this one does.
My 1st non-Coopers in fact.

Possibly go for less sweetness, but I'll reassess in another month or two?

[pmclaren11]

An update - this brew tastes fantastic out of the fermenter - full of flavour and not like a typical mid-strength beer. Not unlike a Rogers style beer and definately not sweet - thanks for all the tips.

Can't wait to get this kegged and rip in to it.

[Sonny]

KILKENNY Style - Morgan`s Royal Oak Amber Ale/1.5kg Liquid Amber Malt/Kit yeast & Nutrient + 12 g Fuggles hops last. (23L) 1044SG/1018FG @ 3.49%Alc, Kit yeast at 24deg.

Cracked one last night after 7wks in the bottle.

T'is going to be nice this drop. Yes it's sweet but a good sweet. Tastes special this one does.
My 1st non-Coopers in fact.

Possibly go for less sweetness, but I'll reassess in another month or two?

Bottled 06Feb 2011.
Has a head and is liked by those friends who drink it. Still I reckon a bit sweet and could do with a lot more body. Will keep a few of these for some months down the track, as it is a nice drop and I would like to see it improve.