Sake

[bazza]

I was browsing through the Homebrew shop on the weekend, deciding what to buy for my next brew, when I noticed a Sake brewing kit. When I say kit, it looked like a sachet, but apparently has everything you need to make Sake.

Just curious if anyone here had tried making Sake? If so, how did it turn out? Debating whether it is worth trying after I ferment my next brew.

Bazza

[rwh]

If it was a sachet, then it was probably a flavouring to add to watered down vodka. There are all sorts of flavours.

[Chris]

I just wish I could find a koji supplier!

Anyone know one?

[bazza]

If it was a sachet, then it was probably a flavouring to add to watered down vodka. There are all sorts of flavours.

Hmm, could have been. Didn't read the pack properly, although I thought it mentioned yeast.

Anyway, my fermenter will be busy for the next few weeks. Just waiting for the cider to finish so I can start on a wheat beer. Hmm, so much to try, so little time

[mikey]

I just wish I could find a koji supplier!

Anyone know one?

How to make Kome-koji from Koji or Koji-kin.

1.Wash and soak the 400g(0.9lb) rice for about five hours and then put the rice in a basket for at least 20 min. to cut water.

2.Steam cook the rice. Steam cooked rice looks slightly transparent, not white.

3.Cool down the cooked rice to 30deg C(86deg F). Put the rice into an enamel or stainless steel thin moistened cheese cloth or cotton cloth to prevent drying.

4.Put the container in a picnic ice box together with 35deg C(95deg F) warm water bottles to keep the inside at 30deg C(86deg F) for 40 hours. The amount of the warm water will preferably be a least 8 litters(2 gal). If necessary, change the warm water to keep the temperature constant. In 10 hours,mix again the mixture of the cooked rice and Koji using a cooking sparula. Already you can notice the whitened rice and get good aroma. I used a digital thermometer to measure the temperature inside. Very useful.

5.Further keep the mixture at 30deg C(86deg F) for 30 hours.

6.You can get white colored Kome-koji covered with white fungus.

[Rod]

mikey ,

looks good

now all I need is the fungus

[mikey]

mikey ,

looks good

now all I need is the fungus

I had a chat to the missus (she is Japanese) and it looks like we may be able to buy kome-koji from a distributor. I'll check it out and let you know.

I remember a mate of mine making sake years ago using the open bin method and he didn't have kome-koji or anything. I m ight have to call him and find out what he did.

[Chris]

I've actually found a supplier in WA just recently. If you know another, post it up so we can compare prices. I don't have the www on me at the moment, but I'll post it soon (unless someone else knows it?).

I've got a good sake yeast (from Weast) but no koji yet! Want to order soon.

[mikey]

mikey ,

looks good

now all I need is the fungus

I had a chat to the missus (she is Japanese) and it looks like we may be able to buy kome-koji from a distributor. I'll check it out and let you know.

I remember a mate of mine making sake years ago using the open bin method and he didn't have kome-koji or anything. I m ight have to call him and find out what he did.

Sorry guys, I've been too busy at work to think about this.

[afromaiko]

I've had a few serious cracks at making sake. If you are still interested, post back here and I'll be happy to discuss my experiences with you.

[Chris]

I'd love to hear it. I've been meaning to brew some for quite a while.

And for anyone who may be interested, the koji supplier I found is:

http://www.tibbs-vision.com/sake

Do you have a better one afromaiko?

[afromaiko]

I've bought koji-kin (also called koji-tane) from there before. I had mixed success making it. It's a bit finicky to grow the spores healthily on rice without getting any other foreign mould happening too. It's also difficult to get a proper penetration of the spores into the center of the rice, which you need to ensure a good saccrification later. The saccrification is essentially the same as mashing, except that with sake it occurs during the brewing stage simultaneously as fermentation is going on. This is called "multiple parallel fermentation".

A good test of your kome-koji (kome = rice, so rice with koji spores grown on it) is to see if you can make amazake from it. Amazake (ama = sweet, zake = sake) is a sweet, supposedly non-alcoholic, drink made by almost simmering the kome-koji at a low temperature in something like a crockpot overnight. It will turn to mush, and will be quite sweet if done properly. Japanese mix this in a cup with some boiled water and a bit of grated ginger to make a lovely warming winter drink.

However, you can actually buy already made Kome-koji from Japanese supermarkets such as Fuji-Mart in Melbourne and Tokyo-Mart in Sydney. It's in the freezer section, and is in a flat rectangular block about the same size and shape as those 2 minute noodle packs. Costs about $7.00 for I think 250gms. I'll have to check. They sell it mainly for the purpose of making amazake as I described above.

Some people also like to make amazake from sake-kasu, literally sake dregs or sake crap. It's the lees left over after they squeeze out all the remaining sake from them. To make amazake from this you don't need to do anything special, just add a lump to hot water and flavour as desired. Even though you might be able to leech a little bit of sake out of the sake-kasu, it's not suitable for brewing sake yourself so don't buy this by mistake. Sake-kasu will probably be near the kome-koji, but sake-kasu will be lots of crumbly lumps packaged loose in a plastic bag.

Have a look at this link about making kome-koji, it's all in Japanese but the pictures speak for themselves.

http://www.ajiwai.com/otoko/make/kouji.htm

I hope this was helpful, I'd better get back to work but can post more info later or answer any questions you have.

[afromaiko]

I was browsing through the Homebrew shop on the weekend, deciding what to buy for my next brew, when I noticed a Sake brewing kit. When I say kit, it looked like a sachet, but apparently has everything you need to make Sake.

Just curious if anyone here had tried making Sake? If so, how did it turn out? Debating whether it is worth trying after I ferment my next brew.

Bazza

Grain and grape sell a kit for about $35 that includes all you need to make a small batch of sake. Kome-koji (malted rice), lactic acid and yeast. Just tip it all in your fementer, add water and wait. It comes in a clear plastic pack and looks like a small bag of rice.
http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/product ... ts_id=7206

Photo of this full kit here:
http://www.mountainhomebrew.com/index.a ... rodID=4127

There is another 'kit' that comes as a small sachet. This is only the koji-kin spores. You'll need to source and inoculate the rice yourself, as well as buying some yeast some as the Wyeast Sake #9. So, it's not really much of a kit but more like an essential ingredient you'll need if going down the path of fully brewing your own sake from scratch. I believe it also comes with instructions, but these are almost identical to those which you can find on the internet.

Info about the sachet style kits:
http://www.breworganic.com/index.asp?Pa ... ProdID=390

To dispel what rwh posted above about it probably being a flavouring kit for vodka, it's not. You can't make sake that way because sake is only brewed beverage and is not a distilled spirit. It is about the same alcohol as wine. However there is a clear Japanese distilled spirit similar to vodka called Shochu (also Shouchuu or Shochuu), and that runs from 20% alcohol upwards. It's made from varying ingredients depending on the region, but can be made from rice (kind of like distilled sake), barley, sweet potato etc. Read more about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sh%C5%8Dch%C5%AB

[earle]

Have just returned from Japan. You can get a 700ml of Shochu for the equivalent of about $7. And if you want to be more economical they sell the stuff in bottles up to about 4L. Just pop down to your local Seicomart.

[mikey]

Sorry mate, but comparing Sake to Shochu is like comparing a dog to a cat.

Both can be great (depending on your taste) but they are totally different animals.

[earle]

I wasn't comparing the two as I know that they are totally different. I was just adding a point about shochu as it had been mentioned in the previous post.

To dispel what rwh posted above about it probably being a flavouring kit for vodka, it's not. You can't make sake that way because sake is only brewed beverage and is not a distilled spirit. It is about the same alcohol as wine. However there is a clear Japanese distilled spirit similar to vodka called Shochu (also Shouchuu or Shochuu),

[mikey]

I wasn't comparing the two as I know that they are totally different. I was just adding a point about shochu as it had been mentioned in the previous post.

To dispel what rwh posted above about it probably being a flavouring kit for vodka, it's not. You can't make sake that way because sake is only brewed beverage and is not a distilled spirit. It is about the same alcohol as wine. However there is a clear Japanese distilled spirit similar to vodka called Shochu (also Shouchuu or Shochuu),

I wonder if that's why I got reading glasses late last year?

[earle]

Still on shochu, when I was reading up the lonely planet guide on Japan it described it as a low grade alcohol that had up until recently be used as a cleaning agent. When I smelt it it reminded me a bit of Kirov Vodka that used to be made at the Beenleigh rum distillery, both had a bit of a whiff of metho about them. Perhaps I bought a cheap bottle of Shochu as well?

[mikey]

I have no doubt you did. Like sake (and other alcohols for that matter), you get what you pay for.

I have had some of the foulest sakes, shochus and other Japanese alcohols in this world (I lived therm for 6 years) and some of the best.

Good shochu (ichichoku - in the blue bottle) is pure nectar, especially when you squeeze Yuzu (a Japanese lime/ lemon) over it.

[Taylor-MadeAK]

I love Google. It causes me to stumble across posts like this one that I otherwise wouldn't see. Let's see if I can answer some of the questions here.

I was browsing through the Homebrew shop on the weekend, deciding what to buy for my next brew, when I noticed a Sake brewing kit. When I say kit, it looked like a sachet, but apparently has everything you need to make Sake.

I imagine the instructions say "just add hot water" or something similar? If so, then that bag contains parboiled rice, kome-koji, and yeast - everything you need to make about a quart of doburoku sake. If you let the fermentation proceed at room temperature, you'll have a quart of very cloudy, very sour Japanese homebrew-style sake. Yum! I humbly suggest that you can significantly improve your results by carrying out the primary fermentation (once it gets going) at 50ºF for three weeks.

For everyone else:

If you're really interested in making quality sake at home, I recommend this guide. Yes, I know it's a shameless plug. But I promise you that you'll find no better guide freely available on the internet, and my e-mail door is always open for questions.