Experimental Ginger Beer

[drsmurto]

Been doing a lot of thinking about my GB experiments. I have 2 x 5L demi-johns so am thinking of doing a few more trials.

According to my calcs, 500g of dry extract in 4L gives me around 4.4% abv.

So how would wheat malt extract go in a ginger beer, am i right in thinking that wheat extract would result in a sweeter beer?

Other thoughts are to use some dark spec grains.

Man i love playing around with beer! Any other suggestions?

Cheers
DrSmurto

[111222333]

sup doc

I added a kilo of wheat to a cider kit (BlackRock, which, the impression that i get, is generally highly regarded). nice drop but you can really notice the tartness of the wheat, and not so much a sweetness, even with 0.5kg of Lactose in a 15Lt brew. Recon it'd go down a treat anyway, but it's not really going to be sweet.

BTW my old man's got half a dozen demi's lying around from his foray in to country/fruit wine making. Whats ur best ginger beer recipe so far? been meaning to put one down for christmas.

[Chris]

You'll get some decent head retention

That's actually a problem I'm having atm with my ginger- big head, and it stays all the way to the end! I made it low alcohol ~2.2% for 'drivers,' and used mostly LDM as the fermentables.

[drsmurto]

Bottled Ginger Beer Mach 5 on Sunday arvo.

Recipe for 18L was
1.00 kg Light Dry Extract (15.8 EBC) Dry Extract 33.33 %
0.50 kg Caramalt (Joe White) (49.3 EBC) Grain 16.67 %
1.25 kg Ginger Root (Boil 12.0 min) Misc
2.00 items Cinnamon Stick (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1.50 kg Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (2.0 EBC) Sugar 50.00 %
1 Pkgs Lalvin EC-1118 (Lallemand - Lalvin #EC-1118) Yeast-Wine

Also added 8 cloves and 1 lemon and a lime finely sliced to the boil. Ended up with FG of 1.010 comapred to the normal 1.000 or lower. tasted pretty good, has more body thatn my usual attempts and just a touch of sweetness. Not having tasted it carbed and chilled i may be a tad presumptous saying i reckon this is the best one yet.

[Trizza]

G'day Doc,

I'm planning my own ginger beer from scratch, as close to bundy as possible.
my last one had 1.5kg of LLME, which ruined it, as it had too much body.
How did this one turn out?

Trizza.

[Kevnlis]

You will not get anywhere near Bundy, they actually candi the ginger in a rough molasses before they use it in the GB. I think your only hope would be to find someone that can get molasses and try to mimic whatever it is they do to the ginger.

[gregb]

Molasses should be available in either your local supermarket or health food shop.

Cheers,
Greg

[drsmurto]

The wheat malt idea was good in theory, bad in practice. First infected beer ever. Worst part about it was that i dropped it off to grumpsy for the monthly stammtisch without having actually tasted it myself. Terrible stuff, tipped the rest out after having one sip!

It will be repeated but i have long ago come to the conclusion you cannot make an alco GB from scratch that tastes like Bundy. The biggest issue is that bundy GB is sickly sweet and too be honest, tastes like ginger and sugar and not much else. My original recipe using raw sugar only is still the best one i have made. Yes its thin, yes its dry but its alcoholic and very VERY gingery so i am happy.

I am still trying to make a wheat GB as i think that would work well but for now my GB expereiments are on hold. And i cant be arsed doing 4-5L AGs. If i can get 500g of wheat malt extract then i will give it a go on a small scale.

The only other trick left is to add sugar solutions to the keg, either ginger cordial or something similar. At 4degC and consumed quickly i reckon that might work, if bottling you are screwed (unless you like artificial sweeteners and lets not get my started on that topic!).

My current trick with the first GBs which mates find too dry is to add a small amount of Bickfords lemon cordial to the glass. Sits in the bar next to the raspberry cordial which gets added to the cider (or the guinness when noone is looking).

Cheers
DrSmurto

[Kevnlis]

Mmmmm... Raspberry cordial in Guinness, that sounds bloody good. I may have to rack half my next Guinness batch onto some frozen raspberries

Cheers for the idea Doc!

[Trizza]

You will not get anywhere near Bundy, they actually candi the ginger in a rough molasses before they use it in the GB. I think your only hope would be to find someone that can get molasses and try to mimic whatever it is they do to the ginger.

Well i've got some molassas, anyone have and idea as to how i'd go about candi'ing the ginger?

[drtom]

There is quite a bit of confusion on the subject of candi sugar.

IIRC, it is just invert sugar. You can make it by boiling sucrose (cane sugar) with some acid. So what I've done with some success is to make a syrup with 2 cups of sugar and 1/2 cup water and 1tbl lemon juice (the acid). Heat it *slowly* stirring so that the sugar all dissolves, then boil without stirring for 5-10 minutes so that the citric acid from the lemon juice catalyzes the inversion of the sucrose. I don't have the right equipment for measuring the optical rotation to verify how complete the inversion is, though I do have a friend who works in a physical chemistry lab at RMIT. Perhaps I should give him some samples to test.

What I don't know, is how much difference, if any, the inversion makes to the way yeast metabolizes the dimer.

cheers,
T.

[Trizza]

Bottled Ginger Beer Mach 5 on Sunday arvo.

Recipe for 18L was
1.00 kg Light Dry Extract (15.8 EBC) Dry Extract 33.33 %
0.50 kg Caramalt (Joe White) (49.3 EBC) Grain 16.67 %
1.25 kg Ginger Root (Boil 12.0 min) Misc
2.00 items Cinnamon Stick (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1.50 kg Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (2.0 EBC) Sugar 50.00 %
1 Pkgs Lalvin EC-1118 (Lallemand - Lalvin #EC-1118) Yeast-Wine

Also added 8 cloves and 1 lemon and a lime finely sliced to the boil. Ended up with FG of 1.010 comapred to the normal 1.000 or lower. tasted pretty good, has more body thatn my usual attempts and just a touch of sweetness. Not having tasted it carbed and chilled i may be a tad presumptous saying i reckon this is the best one yet.

Have you tasted this one yet doc?
It seems to have alot more ginger compared to the other GB that I asked you for the recipe to eariler this week.

Trizza.

[drsmurto]

I have and its not bad at all - not entirely sure of the malt additions tho. To be honest, i really need to do one last experiment with this thinking in mind and use raw sugar and crystal malt but not malt or malt extract. I reckon 500g of crystal malt might just add some sweetness without adding the malty flavour which isnt really what i am after. Maybe a bit of carapils thrown in too boost the body a touch.


Hmmmm, i was trying to think of something to brew this weekend. Not sure if i will have time for an AG, maybe this will do the job..... And Ginger beer using champers yeast is far more tolerant of temperatures.

[Trizza]

Doc,

I've been busy today working on a new ginger beer recipe after my last failure (which involved 1.5 Kg of LLME, too much body, far too sweet.)
Today I've come up with a new recipe involving aspects of your previous recipe and additions of malts, but only a small amount of malt extract.

I have 7 current problems with this brew and they are numbered in the recipe below:

1.25 Kg Ginger @ 60 mins (1)
0.50 Kg LDME @ Flameout (2)
2.50 Kg Raw Sugar @ Flameout
0.50 Kg Brown Sugar @ Flameout
0.50 Kg Yellowbox Honey @ 20 Minutes
0.20 Kg Lactose @ Flameout
0.10 Kg Molasses @ 60 Minutes (3)
0.25 Kg Carapils Malt Steeped for 30, Added to boil @ 60 Minutes (4)
0.25 Kg Crystal Malt Steeped for 30, Added to boil @ 60 Minutes (4)
0.05 Kg Chocolate Malt Steeped for 30, Added to boil @ 60 Minutes (4)
12.00 No. Cloves @ 20 Minutes (5)
2.00 No. Cinnamon Sticks @ 20 Minutes (6)
3.00 No. Lemons (Zest @ 60 Minutes, Flesh @ 20 Minutes, Pith - Removed) (7)
10.00 g Yeast Nutrient @ Flameout
7.00 g Lavin EC-1118 champagne Yeast
Volume: 23L
Priming Rate: 190g Dextrose per 23L

Problem 1: Do you think that this amount of Ginger is enough for a brew of 23L. I generally like a very gingery ginger beer.
Problem 2: I'm not sure that this addition of LDME is the best idea, as it will probably give the brew too much body.
Problem 3: I'm not sure if this quantity of molasses is too much to overpower the beer, and if it needs to be boiled for 60 minutes.
Problem 4: I'm thinking that these grains mightn’t be enough to have an impact on the final flavour of the beer, especially if there is no addition of LDME, so I’m considering increasing the quantities.
Problem 5: I'm not sure how long the cloves need to be boiled for. any thoughts?
Problem 6: I'm not sure how long the Cinnamon needs to be boiled for. any thoughts?
Problem 7: Do you think that 3 Lemons will overpower the ginger flavour?

If there is anything else with this brew with which you think needs to be altered, please let me know. Thanks for the help.

Trizza.

[drsmurto]

Firstly, its nice to see someone actually using references in this forum, how i put up with you cretins destroying the english language is beyond me.....

Piss taking aside, thats one hell of a recipe. A tad complicated IMHO, even for me who is now up to Ginger Beer Mach 8.

Doc,

I've been busy today working on a new ginger beer recipe after my last failure (which involved 1.5 Kg of LLME, too much body, far too sweet.)
Today I've come up with a new recipe involving aspects of your previous recipe and additions of malts, but only a small amount of malt extract.

I have 7 current problems with this brew and they are numbered in the recipe below:

1.25 Kg Ginger @ 60 mins (1)
0.50 Kg LDME @ Flameout (2)
2.50 Kg Raw Sugar @ Flameout
0.50 Kg Brown Sugar @ Flameout
0.50 Kg Yellowbox Honey @ 20 Minutes
0.20 Kg Lactose @ Flameout
0.10 Kg Molasses @ 60 Minutes (3)
0.25 Kg Carapils Malt Steeped for 30, Added to boil @ 60 Minutes (4)
0.25 Kg Crystal Malt Steeped for 30, Added to boil @ 60 Minutes (4)
0.05 Kg Chocolate Malt Steeped for 30, Added to boil @ 60 Minutes (4)
12.00 No. Cloves @ 20 Minutes (5)
2.00 No. Cinnamon Sticks @ 20 Minutes (6)
3.00 No. Lemons (Zest @ 60 Minutes, Flesh @ 20 Minutes, Pith - Removed) (7)
10.00 g Yeast Nutrient @ Flameout
7.00 g Lavin EC-1118 champagne Yeast
Volume: 23L
Priming Rate: 190g Dextrose per 23L

Problem 1: Do you think that this amount of Ginger is enough for a brew of 23L. I generally like a very gingery ginger beer.
Problem 2: I'm not sure that this addition of LDME is the best idea, as it will probably give the brew too much body.
Problem 3: I'm not sure if this quantity of molasses is too much to overpower the beer, and if it needs to be boiled for 60 minutes.
Problem 4: I'm thinking that these grains mightn’t be enough to have an impact on the final flavour of the beer, especially if there is no addition of LDME, so I’m considering increasing the quantities.
Problem 5: I'm not sure how long the cloves need to be boiled for. any thoughts?
Problem 6: I'm not sure how long the Cinnamon needs to be boiled for. any thoughts?
Problem 7: Do you think that 3 Lemons will overpower the ginger flavour?

If there is anything else with this brew with which you think needs to be altered, please let me know. Thanks for the help.

Trizza.

OK, answers to your questions.

1. 1.25kg of ginger will be enough to give you a huge ginger kick, the one i made with this much ginger is too much for most of my mates. Also, fresh ginger gives a decent aroma but not as much flavour as when you 'age' it in the fridge for a good month or 2. The longer ginger is left the bigger the ginger bite. I would now advocate a mixture of fresh and aged to get both the bite and a good aroma.

2. As i said in a post above, i am not convinced the idea of malt in a GB is a good one. This depends on what your are trying to achieve. Easy drinking summer beer with the mother of all ginger bites or a malty beer with a ginger flavour/aroma?

3. Never used molasses, i would use golden syrup personally if you are after a caramel type flavour.

4. Again, this is my personal opinion but i would increase the crystal to 0.5kg. And leave out the LDME.

5. Boil the cloves for an hour.

6. Boil the cinnamon stick for an hour.

7. 3 lemons is probably the limit, i have used 2 and its not overpowering the ginger.

So now additional comments. I punched this into beersmith and it comes up with an approx ABV of 6.5%. Thats not exactly a summer quaffer. If this was my beer i would drop the LDME, reduce the sugar to 2kg, up the crystal malt to 0.5kg, drop the choc malt, replace the molasses with 0.25kg of lyles golden syrup. You should also boil the lactose for the best part of an hour, its a bugger to dissolve. Since you are not adding hops (and why would you) add it at the start of the boil along with the ginger, lemon and spices. Honey can be added at flameout along with the rest of the sugars.

I will be very keen to hear how this turns out, whichever way you go. Its good to know someone else is experimenting with ginger beers from scratch. Its a tad more work than dumping in a kit but its 200% worth it IMHO. Not unlike AG beers, once you make something from scratch its damn satisfying (as long as it works out ok).

As always, take my advice/opinion any way you want, its your beer so brew it to your taste.

One last comment, i am not sure that 200g of lactose will do much, particularly since you should get some residual sweetness with all the crystal malt. I would be tempted to drop it. You can always add it later. Taste it once it has finished fermenting. If you thinks it needs it boil some up for an hour, preferably in some of the fermented GB, cool it and add it back in. Or add at the same time you bulk prime.

I think thats it for now. Will add more if i think of anything. Have fun!

Cheers and ginger beers
DrSmurto

[drsmurto]

Having thought about it a bit more, i wonder if oyu could increase the aroma of the ginger beer by boiling some of it for less? Beersmith suggested boiling for 12 mins.

[Kevnlis]

I only boil my ginger for 5 minutes, and it goes in frozen...

[Trizza]

Thanks a hell of allot Doc,
I've changed the recipe to your recommendations.

1.25 Kg Ginger @ 60 Minutes
0.25 Kg Ginger @ 15 Minutes
2.00 Kg Raw Sugar @ Flameout
0.50 Kg Brown Sugar @ Flameout
0.50 Kg Yellowbox Honey @ 20 Minutes
0.10 Kg Molasses @ 60 Minutes
0.50 Kg Crystal Malt Steeped for 30, Added to boil @ 60 Minutes
0.30 Kg Carapils Malt Steeped for 30, Added to boil @ 60 Minutes
12.00 No. Cloves @ 60 Minutes
2.00 No. Cinnamon Sticks @ 60 Minutes
3.00 No. Lemons (Zest @ 60 Minutes, Flesh @ 20 Minutes, Pith - Removed)
10.00 g Yeast Nutrient @ Flameout
7.00 g Lavin EC-1118 champagne Yeast
Volume: 23L
Priming Rate: 190g Dextrose per 23L

I'm only going to be using fresh ginger, and to add some extra flavour/aroma I’m going to make another addition of 250g at 15 minutes before flameout. I'll leave in the molasses, because I really love this stuff, and it adds so much to the brew.
Since I'm aiming for a summer quaffer, not a malty beer, it makes a great deal of sense to remove the LDME instead of an increase of crystal malt. That addition would also mean less lactose is required, so I’ll drop it from the recipe and add some at racking if required.
This is only my "Mach 3" ginger beer as you would put it.

I’m not going to start this brew until its cold enough in Melbourne, so it’ll probably go down in March. What sort of temperature does Champagne yeast prefer? 20-22?

Thanks again for everything…

Trizza

[drsmurto]

The champagne yeast is very tolerant of temps and is a clean, neutral yeast. Ive used it up to 24 and havent noticed any off flavours that you get when using ale or lager yeasts.

Why wait? A wet towel and brewing inside will keep the temps to 24 or below unless you live in a hot box of an apartment with no air con!

[Trizza]

Why wait? A wet towel and brewing inside will keep the temps to 24 or below unless you live in a hot box of an apartment with no air con!

I'm relegated to the shed for all my brewing endeavours, which might be ok for brewing right now with temperatures ranging from 24 to 28 degrees. However, I’d prefer much more to do it in cooler conditions when they’re more constant temps.

I’ve had a bad experience before with summer brewing, that I don’t ever want to see repeated, where even a wet towel couldn’t get it below 28 degrees.

Trizza.