The Wicked Ale day

[speedie]

the wicked ale day
a day at the coven
rascally rogue















speedie

[Tipsy]

Which one are you speedie?

[Chris]

I think he's the hydrometer

There's some nice kit there.

[speedie]

tipsy i am the one takin the photos

[Bum]

Bugger. My money was on the XXXX shirt.

[speedie]

This is the result of bottle cultured yeast talk, as I indicated thought that I would have a go at rogues (pacman) yeast to see if I stacked up

I pumped about 110 liters of sweet wort each into two of the many vessels that I use
Must say that the initial ferment or start was really wild as it can up to the underside of the fermenter lid and I know from past experience not to fill just one of the 220 liter vessels
There is nothing worse than coming back the next day to find about 20 litres of brew on the floor due to very active yeast and not much head space in the vessel

After the first day it settled down to a steady ferment and bubbled away for about seven days @ 16 degrees ambient or shed temperature
I then put it into my cool room to cold settle for a further 7 days

So far not really impressed with the flocculation aspect of this yeast as it is a bit powdery ie there is still substantial particulate in suspension

After that it was transferred off the yeast and put back into a clean co2 flushed 220 vessel
I did however rack off the top 25 liters to a keg for general tasting
@ 7.3% it is not your session beer and defiantly has room for maturation of flavor etc
I think that this brew deserves bottle conditioning to do it justice and to store it for extended time frame

As a foot note there is no! off aromas or taste in this brew so I feel that this yeast hasn’t mutated at all

Thanks for the comment Chris and yes most of the kit was built by myself
The kettles are ex stainless steel solar hot water tanks the chiller is your normal tube in tube jobbies

Pumps where scrounged from old jobs
The cool room was out of a pub in freo
This beer thing starts out as a hobby then becomes a habit
Cheers speedie

[drsmurto]

Interesting comment about the poor flocculation of this yeast Speedie.

The yeast sold by Wyeast marketed as Rogue Pacman is a very good flocculator.

This picture is of a beer that has had no finings added and was only cold conditioned for 3 days. The yeast had already dropped out by the end of primary (10-14 days is my normal primary). No filtering either.

So maybe the yeast in the bottle isn't the same as the strain being sold by Wyeast?

[Bum]

So maybe the yeast in the bottle isn't the same as the strain being sold by Wyeast?

but it doesnt taste like poison so it must!
be the same strain

Anyway, how can you say that is a well flocced beer? I can see all sorts of crap in there. Trees, BBQ covers, what might even be a dog, etc. Terrible yeast!

[Planner]

Anyway, how can you say that is a well flocced beer? I can see all sorts of crap in there. Trees, BBQ covers, what might even be a dog, etc. Terrible yeast!

That would explain the wet dog flavours described in another thread

[speedie]

Hay that maybe the case ,but at the end of the day my brew is what it is
Definitely not repeatable

After a days graft at work I had to drop in to my workshop/brewery on the way home and try another sample of that brew. It is a strong beer that is for sure
The photo of your pint of lure looks good just love that copper tone!
10 to 14 days Seems like a long primary for ale yaest with the sort of gravities that your brews start @

What was the starting gravity of the pacman brew?

speedie

[drsmurto]

10-14 days is my standard time for an ale which allows time for fermentation to be completed and also for the yeast to mop up any off flavours produced during fermentation.

The OG on the above beer was 1.047 which is where most of my beers start.

[speedie]

Correct me if I am wrong but you posted in earlier posts that you enjoy beers for flavor not alcohol

So can I read between the lines and assume that most brews would be starting (OG) 1038 plus if so there would be an excessive time for fermentation and conditioning

As aside note would you consider doing an adaption of my brew
Dusty Nelson

[warra48]

I also enjoy my beers for flavour, not alcohol.
My starting gravities have been anywhere from 1.037 to 1.060.
All my ales have a minimum of two weeks in primary, and some of them have had up to four weeks.
The time we choose to leave our beers in primary has nothing to do with their ABV. I know I could bottle many of my brews after a week, and some of them seem to have done their bit in about 4 days. I think my beers are better for the extra time in primary, for the same reasons as set out by DrS.

[speedie]

Warra
Please understand that primary fermentation for ale yeast is generally 4-5 days @ ale temperatures

This not to say that it is at terminal gravity but dam close to 75% finished so if you leave your beer (brew wort ) on the spent yeast for lets assume 10 more days what do you gain from it
Regardless of % A/v

My comments to the doctor! is that it seems too long a fermentation duration if? You are brewing mild or let us presume flavorsome ales starting og of 1038 or less!
How do we preach to the unconverted!
Starch that is?

[warra48]

Sorry, you've lost me. Please explain. My post mentioned I know I could bottle after a week or so, and that many of my brews had done their bit in 4 days, but what's the hurry? I have plenty of stocks to keep me going. I don't need to brew more than once each 3 to 4 weeks to keep up with my not very high daily consumption rate.

Where is "starch" coming from in my brews?
I usually get over 90% potential extraction from my mash. That's higher than most of the figures I see posted by other brewers. Seems to me the enzymes in my mash do a pretty good job of converting the starch to sugars, and I seem to run most of those off. I can almost read the paper through many of my brews, even though I don't filter or use finings! My beers don't suffer from chill haze.

Are you saying a fast fermentation is good or desirable? If so, why?
What downsides are there to me leaving my brews for 2 weeks or longer in primary?
I have no trouble kicking off my next brew with a jar of harvested yeast slurry, so it's not like I'm suffering from autolysis.

[Bum]

Pretty sure he's talking about a prompt secondary being essential for all brews because that is how he learned to brew 30 years ago when he realised he'd reached the pinnacle of beer.

Speedie, many brewers find an extended primary gives many of the benefits of racking to secondary without the extra cleaning/effort required and exposure to potential risks. Give it a go on a brew sometime before you start throwing nonsensical punctuation at people (incidentally, unless you're Spanish, question marks and exclamation points go at the end of sentences. Putting them wherever you like makes it very difficult for the reader to follow what you are saying).

For example, for a beer of OG1055 or below I'll usually leave it a week at 17ish after FG is reached then give it a week crash chilling before I bottle. Could I bottle most of these beers at about a week instead of nearly three? Yeah, sure but I have noticed a difference in flavour and certain cosmetic issues (which isn't all that important to me, just a happy coincidence) following this method. Some people might like to do more or less than this and I am not suggesting it is the perfect system but it is turning out my best beers yet.

[squirt in the turns]

Pretty sure he's talking about a prompt secondary being essential for all brews because that is how he learned to brew 30 years ago when he realised he'd reached the pinnacle of beer.

Correct me if I'm wrong (I wasn't born 30 years ago, let alone brewing) but many homebrewing techniques would have been modelled on commercial practices, as per some of the stuff Palmer states in the first edition of How to Brew, but apparently later refutes (I wouldn't know first-hand as I'm too tight to pay for it) - such as prompt racking. The fact that most homebrewers are only dealing with, perhaps, 50 litres, changes things significantly.

Speedie, what is/are your primary fermentation vessel(s)? Assuming that the glass carboy contains your starter, unless that's your 400 litres of Wicked Ale, and everything you own including your glassware and calendar is scaled up to similarly large proportions as your batches

My understanding is that, depending on the shape and size of the fermenter, when dealing with such quantities of beer, the transfer to secondary is more time-sensitive, especially in something like a conical, where the yeast is under a large amount of pressure (of course, a decent conical has a valve to drain off the lees, removing the necessity for a secondary?)

[bullfrog]

Following on from Dr Smurto, Warra and Bum, I also keep my ales in primary for around a fortnight. It is widely regarded that lagering is of best affect when done in the largest possible single quantity, and considering that one is never going to see autolysis in a two week period, why the hell would it be a bad thing? I find it odd that you would see it to be anything but good, Speedie.

Oh, and if you read this post and misunderstand the term "lagering" then we'll all see how uneducated you are, so maybe open up Google before you post.

[speedie]

Squirt my fermentation vessels are 220 litre food grade poly drums which are actually ex olive importation drums
They serve as a good medium for my purpose

I must say that your comments are well thought out and there is some merit in what you preserve in brew thought which cant be said for the other commenter’s
My initial comments were directed towards the duration of fermentation for ale based brews that start @ 1045 or lower
Most of the batches that I do have reached terminal gravity after approximately 3-5 days

At this stage of procedures I would cold settle for 24 hours then rack to a clean co2 flushed vessel

It is good practice to get the brew of the yeast aspa
I must admit to being derelict in that regard sometime when I am strapped for time due too work and or family issues

If you other brewers keep your brews in primary for weeks so be it but understand that once the batch has reached terminal gravity then primary is complete and what you are doing is lagering on the yeast

Cheers speedie

[Bum]

How so? Lagering is cold storage for prolonged periods innit, Captain Homebrew?

You're yet to suggest any benefits of getting the beer "off the yeast" the second primary fermentation is complete. However, everyone you claim has put their point poorly has given their reasoning - what's going on there?