My maiden voyage..

[James L]

G'day guys,

My first attempt at grain brewing occured yesterday... I had a few teething problems...

Urn worked great, Mash tun worked great although i need to put my big dial thermometer on the side so i dont have to keep opening the lid to check the temp.

I had 5kg of grain, and i added 15L of water for the mash.. i accounted for 1L/kg of grain to be soaked up, and 2L of water per kilo of grain. was this correct? or does the 2L of water per kilo of grain account for the soaking up from the grain? It seemed a little too watery (not like porridge).

When i transferred from the mash tun to the kettle, after about 10L of liquor transfer, there was an airlock in the tube. I didnt realise this, and thought that the mash tun had drained all the liquor, so i added more water (I was trying to do a continuous sparge). I think i ended up adding about 16L of water until i lifted the tube from the kettle and all the liquor from the mash tun started flowing into the kettle (I got about 26.5L then i stopped, even though there was about 5L still left in the tun).

I think this little episode resulted in my poor efficiency... I think it worked out to be about 55%. After the boil, when i had boiled the volume down to 22L, I was expecting 1046 SG, but only got 1039.

The boil went well except that i hadnt used the burner before yesterday, so the paint on the bastard caught on fire and turned my lovely new stainless pot all black. The melting paint also blocked alot of the burner holes and therefore resulted in the fire burning where the gas hose connnected... I took the kettle off, cleaned up the burner, started it up and burnt the shit out of everything before putting the kettle back on...

I added kopperfloc for the first time 10 minutes toward the end of the boil. This seemed to work well. I used the plate chiller which was excellent (but couldnt get the wort outlet temp below 20. I seemed to loose 4L of liquid from the kettle to the fermenter.. i think this was due to the floc and hop residue in the bottom of the kettle. So at the end of the day, i ended up with 18L of munich helles, even though i was expecting more

Although i had a few dramas (most of which will never happen again because i know what to expect now), i had a great day brewing, and plan to do it again this weekend.

Should you expect to loose 3-4L in the kettle due to floc/hops residue? and therefore should i compensate by brewing a larger volume? say do a 30L batch instead of 26L? If i didnt use kopperfloc, would i be able to get more out of the kettle?

I guess you cant expect a perfect day first time round... but geez it was fun... I even managed to mow the lawn while i was waiting for the boil..

[warra48]

Welcome to the dark side of AG.

I had the same efficiency issues with my first few brews. I was told not to worry about it, but to get comfortable with my equipment and the process, and was assured I would get an improvement as I went on. I now regularly get in the high 80% range for efficiency into the kettle.

As an aside, when you measured your SG at 1039, what was the temperature of the wort? If you measured it before you put it through your plate chiller, you need to make an adjustment to your reading, and you might have done better than you thought. Beersmith has a tool which allows you to calculate it accurately.

For my system, and for a single infusion,I usally mash in with a ratio of 2.3 litres to 1 kg of grain (based on TL's advice). I mash out with a further 7 or 8 litres of water, and do my first drain into the kettle. I have a measure in my kettle, so I can see how much I have drained. I can then calculate how much sparge water to add to achieve my pre-boil volume of about 30 litres. I lose about 5 litres to evaporation, 1 litre due to cooling shrinkage, and about 1 litre in the trub in the bottom of the kettle. That gives me about 23 litres into the fermenter, give or take a litre or so.

Using Koppafloc or Irish Moss will not make a difference to your volumes.

Anyway, keep notes of what you do, and you will find the process becomes really quite simple.

Hope the beer turns out great for you!

[rwh]

I had 5kg of grain, and i added 15L of water for the mash.. i accounted for 1L/kg of grain to be soaked up, and 2L of water per kilo of grain. was this correct? or does the 2L of water per kilo of grain account for the soaking up from the grain? It seemed a little too watery (not like porridge).

You mashed with 3L/kilo of grain which is indeed a thin mash. I'd reduce it to 2L/kilo of grain (that's what I use).

The boil went well except that i hadnt used the burner before yesterday, so the paint on the bastard caught on fire and turned my lovely new stainless pot all black. The melting paint also blocked alot of the burner holes and therefore resulted in the fire burning where the gas hose connnected... I took the kettle off, cleaned up the burner, started it up and burnt the shit out of everything before putting the kettle back on...

nice.

I used the plate chiller which was excellent (but couldnt get the wort outlet temp below 20.

No surprise there. I assume you weren't prechilling your coolant water.

Should you expect to loose 3-4L in the kettle due to floc/hops residue? and therefore should i compensate by brewing a larger volume? say do a 30L batch instead of 26L?

That sounds like an excessive loss to me. I normally just let a bit of the hop residue and break material into my fermenter. I don't think it's such a huge issue (if you look at the literature, the only real issue you get is a slight reduction in stability of the finished beer, but you actually get improved yeast nutrition from the presence of the break material. Considering HB is somewhat stabilised by the presence of live yeast, it's arguable that this is almost beneficial. At least it's far from clear that the presence of break material in the fermenter is a net loss, and losing 4L of your carefully crafted AG wort is clearly a net loss ).

If i didnt use kopperfloc, would i be able to get more out of the kettle?

I doubt it would make much difference. Your other option is to let the break and hop material settle for longer before transferring, or you could try a whirlpool.

[James L]

I did measure the SG when the wort was at 18C. and thats when it was at 10 brix (or 1039). I honestly think that i had the efficiency problems when i had the airlock in the transfer tube, and didnt allow for proper sparging of the mash liqour.

The first things i did when i got my urn and kettle was to put volume markings on the side.. it makes for easier brewing.

I think for this weekend, i'll try a 2L/kg of grain, i'll increase the whole recipe to 30L preboil volume instead of 26, and i'll just do things a little more carefully.

I just dont think that i realised how much liquor you do loose throughout the whole process.

I also think that i'll give the kettle a good stir to ensure that the hot break and hop residue stays in the middle of the kettle as my pickup is on the side.

All these things will come with time...

[drsmurto]

Onya! The obsession has begun.

When you finish the boil stir the wort like crazy to get a nice whirlpool going adn walk away and set up/clean and sanitise the plate chiller. This way the break material sits in the centre of the kettle. I also tip the kettle to get the last precious drops of wort out, usually means chocking up the kettle with a piece of wood. Dont seem to lose more than 1L this way. Always seem to hit my target volume and gravity most of the time. Standard efficiency is 70% but i hit it pretty much every time these days.

And where are the pics?

[James L]

i'll try the whirlpool next time.

I took a few pics, but i kinda forgot about pics when the burner caught on fire... i'll take some more on the weekend. I'll be attempting a nice APA. between now and then i'll install the weldless thermo into the mash tun, and lube all the stainless taps up on the mashtun and the kettle as they leaked a little.

I was also curious, what would i use to substitute victory malt or biscuit malt. Could i use amber?

[drsmurto]

i use amber malt for the biscuity flavour but be warned, its powerful stuff, so use in small quantities.

[Tipsy]

The boil went well except that i hadnt used the burner before yesterday, so the paint on the bastard caught on fire and turned my lovely new stainless pot all black. The melting paint also blocked alot of the burner holes and therefore resulted in the fire burning where the gas hose connnected... I took the kettle off, cleaned up the burner, started it up and burnt the shit out of everything before putting the kettle back on...
..

That exact thing happened to me on my maiden voyage.

[James L]

Scrubbed up ok with a bit of JIF... thank god they invented it...

What size drill bit do i need to install the Mashmaster weldless thermometer? I was thinking 20mm, but i dont have any verniers.

[James L]

I was just having a think about prechilling my coolant water...

Its a little too hard to try and cool water whilst its coming out of the tap (and i dont have a tank), so i was thinking instead of cooling the coolant water, why cant i just add another step to cool the wort with ice in a bucket...

I thought if i have water coming out the chiller at 20C, its only going to need a few seconds in an ice bath to get down to 10C. All it will take is a metre or so of tubing coiled in a bucket full of ice and water between teh chiller outlet and the fermenter. Seems simple enough, and i'd only need to use it for lagers. would be cheap, simple enough to make, simple enough to clean... And i can get ice from work...

what do you think?

[hoohaaman]

Re whirlpooling,I never use too do it.

Upon purchasing a plate chiller,now whirpool religously.I leave all hot break,hop residue(hop sock) and only about 300ml of wort
in kettle.

It works beautifully for me with my gravity fed plate chiller.This time of year one pass gets me between 18-20c,and in summer
on a hot day ,one pass will be about 28-30c.

Dont over think chilling too much

Cheers hoohaa

[drsmurto]

Or if you are lazy like me get a Hopscreen.

I throw hops in willy nilly rather than into a hop sock and the hopscreen keeps all the crud from going into the plate chiller, after i whirlpool of course, not quite that lazy...yet....

[James L]

OK.... i brewed again last weekend with similar efficiency... I dont know what i did...

I had 7.5 kg of grain, and was expecting an OG of about 1063... i ended up with 1048... which is about 55% again

I used a water/grain ratio of 2L/kg, and i had the strike and mash temps spot on.... I tried the continuous sparge again, and i think where i came undone was draining the water too quick... Also after reading a little literature, it seems the beerbelly style false bottom i have shouldnt really be used to continuous sparge, only batch or no sparge... what method do you use DrS?

If i was to try to batch sparge for the next brew, after the mash for 60 minutes, do you drain all the liquor first before adding any more water? or do you add some water to get the liquor more viscous? and when you add sparge water, do you give it a good mix then wait 15 minutes? or can you just add the required ammount of water and drain straight away...

Apart from that, and the cyclonic weather that flooded the patio and shorted the house out, my brew day was good fun.. No pics again as the G/F took the only camera we have to Tassie..

[drsmurto]

Started to believe you arent taking pics cos you dont want your mug on the forum.....

The Doctors method.....

Dough in, water first then grain then stir for a few mins. Check temp, adjust with boiling or cold water as necessary.
Close lid, wrap in sleeping bag, walk away.
60 mins later add volume of boiling H2O to raise temp to 76-78C.
Leave it settle for 10 mins.
Drain tun.
Add sparge water and stir.
Let sit for 10 mins.
Drain tun.
Etc
Etc.

Dont see any reason you couldnt fly sparge using the beerbelly false bottom. I suspect you may be running off too fast. How long does it take you to sparge and what is the pre-boil volume?

I generally take 15-20 mins for each drain. I start heating the first runnings before i add the second runnings. Speeds up the process.

As i said, this AG caper is pretty bloody easy.

Cheers
DrSmurto

[James L]

do you add all your sparge water at once? even if its about 25L?

Ok... it takes me about 15 minutes to drain all my liquor from the mash tun including sparge water (this is for continuous)... and i dont mash out...

Definately too fast... OK thats settled..

I will follow your directions for the next brew including mashout, and i'll see whether i get about 70% efficiency...

I'm just too impatient/excited...

[rwh]

So, how are you crushing? HBS? Sounds like you could do with a finer crush.

[James L]

I have a Modified Marga Mill... seems to crush fine enough... i could always run it through twice...

[drsmurto]

Yep, crush is the biggest single influence on efficiency on the HB scale.

With the beerbelly falsie you can crush finer than most people! The generally accepted rule is crush as fine as you can until you get a stuck sparge! So keep modifying that marga till you find that point. Running thru twice on the same setting isnt likely to do a great deal. IMHO

My sparge volume is usually about 10-15L so it gets all added at once. (Dough in 10-12L, mash out with 8-10L, drain and then sparge with enough water to hit 29L pre-boil).

[James L]

so with your mill DrS, do you use one of the finer settings that originally came with the mill, or did you do the mod?? I drilled a hole where the rollers are furthest apart... Dont say i have to take it apart again and drill another hole...

[drsmurto]

I bought my 2nd hand from a bloke who had modified it himself. Havent done anything to it but i will get around to pulling it apart to see if i can close the gap up even further. Also need to set up an old washing machine motor to drive it. Am getting a little over manually cranking the handle.....

If you have a set of feeler gauges, i believe the ideal setting is something around 0.7mm. Not having measured mine i have no clue but its what the latest issue of BYO magazine suggested.